IS it wrong to ask what happened to CSB?

[Crackpot]

Well I took my meds as well as my "happy pills" so I'm doing better now (though still slightly disappointed since I can't drink now)

It seems to me as he's becoming more and more acquainted with the "It's not my fault I'm acting like a complete tool" Brigade who have a duplicate mailing list as "CSBers for freedom of speech as a suicide pact" he's modifying his views.

Really it's a crash course for him. And I personally can't really fault him for starting out with step 1 In conflict resolution even though this particular conflict left that one in the dust 2 years ago when it became clear that one side was unwilling to accept their part of the problem.

We also have to realize that we do appear a bit gauche in demanding our pound of flesh. Though beyond the howl for blood what we actually seek is acknowledgment of the administrative mistakes that have been made and that actions have been taken to ensure they don't happen again.

It seems to me he's learning the situation. You and others seem to be upset that he's not already up to speed. The man has alot of shit to sift through which no doubt also contains a shitload of Gwen's Revisionism.
Personally I'm a bit impressed that he's managed to get to where he is now.

I'm hopeful that we get a grievance forum (and Gob I must insist you re-register and tear editec a new one if we do) and leave the rest pretty much as was (as is pretty much sucks ass).

[tyro]

I’m sorry Jim, I may not have been clear,

You said:

I think it would be a nice thing if there could be two functional boards...

But given everything Gar has written, (and what Tyro has conveyed about his communications with him) it's pretty clear that that just ain't on the cards...

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think this has anything to do with post editing time.

From my stand point (being the one that had these communications), your inclusion of my name and those communications in that sentence is inexplicable.

So I ask, what did I say that prompted you to add my voice to that conclusion?

Please be specific.

[Crackpot]

Well one thing is clear....

From her latest suck up post, Gwen is certainly under the impression that she and Gar are singing from the same hymnal, and wants everyone to know it:

Quote from: Garaelb on June 22, 2010, 08:09:28 AM
I do not speak for Gwen

You may as regards things CSB.

We've always been pretty much on the same page, anyway.

Thank you for the courtesy, though. : )

http://www.cybersoapbox.com/SMF/index.p ... #msg532703

(Bold emphasis mine)

That was one example of what I was talking about when I referred to Gwens revisionism.

[Lord Jim]

I think I understand your confusion, Tyro; I believe it springs from your refusal to look at the core issue, and to keep insisting on repeating the surface one instead, as though that were the only thing involved. I believe that is where the disconnect arises from.

You said:

In addition, don’t wait for Garaelb to open up the edit time as some sign that the place is now under his management.

Now here's what that means, (once again) as I just said a few posts ago, in terms of the REAL, CORE, FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE:

It's about the fact that a fundamental change was made in the board's functionality that had been in place for years. A lengthy discussion on the subject took place, and a vote was held. The position of the Admin was overwhelmingly rejected by the membership. The Admin decided to impose her position anyway.

You made clear in your post, that based on your discussion with Gar, he's good with that. The fact that he apparently has no problem with that, shows to me that the whole "this is your board" concept was nothing but a bunch of empty hooey, and proves that he "doesn't get it" in terms of understanding what has become the fundamental problem at the CSB,and what led to a lot of people walking out. Namely, the problem of an arbitrary and capricious Admin, who doesn't give one small damn what anybody there thinks except for her two buddies. Her over ruling of the majority on the editing issue is but the purest and most glaring example of this fundamental problem.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=355&start=180

I really am quite perplexed as to why you don't seem to be getting this. It's a mystery to me. Perhaps you could explain why you seem to keep wanting to ignore the fundamental issue, and keep trying to focus on the surface one. I've tried to explain this numerous times, (as have Joe Guy and other here) and it really doesn't seem that complicated to me. It's been explained at least half a dozen time in this thread alone. (It was also explained numerous times at the CSB) Nobody else seems to be having a problem understanding this connection. I really don't know how to make it any more clear.

[tyro]

That is clear as a bell Jim, and thank you for a prompt reply, but you see, your original post said (and this time I will add emphasis on the point that irked me):

I think it would be a nice thing if there could be two functional boards...

But given everything Gar has written, (and what Tyro has conveyed about his communications with him) it's pretty clear that that just ain't on the cards...

You see my point, your comment had nothing to do with edit times but rather the coexistence of the two boards.

I have made numerous posts to the effect that the two boards can easily coexist and so I asked.

[Crackpot]

Gar also had to deal with Turing. THe one time where edited all of his last posts into the space station. (the original reason for the limit). The upgrade that removed the limit was unintentional. So in Gars mind it is as it was and is probably unaware of the full story behind the Gwens ever so masterful handling of the subject.

That being said Gar just PMd me and said that the Grievance forum or some variation of it will be the next addition to the board.

[Lord Jim]

That was one example of what I was talking about when I referred to Gwens revisionism.

I don't know if I'd call that "revisionism" CP (though lord knows she's reached Orwellian heights in that department on numerous occasions; she's absolutely shameless about it) so much as Gwen trying to say to everyone on the board, "Gar supports me and everything I've done completely, so up yours."

Speaking of absolutely shameless....

I've been very sorry to see the way Quad has allowed his hatred for Joe Guy to compel him to abandon any shred of integrity, and turn him into a brazen and prolific liar of near Steve-like dimensions....

Like Steve, he's taken to telling huge, outrageous, stupid lies (a "stupid lie" being defined as one that is easily proven false...proven false so easily that it just makes the one telling it look like a fool) at a break neck pace....

As I've mentioned before, I met Quad some years back when he came through San Francisco...Kelly and I had dinner with him at The Cliff House...he seemed like a nice fellow and we've always had cordial relations....

But he's really gone beyond the pale now....

It's a shame to see that.

[Crackpot]

I thought she said that Gar left the board to crash and burn.....

Well that would explain her behavior.

[Lord Jim]

Okay, Tyro, now I think maybe I understand where the miscommunication is taking place:

the coexistence of the two boards.

That's different from:

two functional boards...

The key word here is "functional"

In my view, the CSB has ceased to be "functional" (at least in any sense that gives it value as forum for interchange and discussion) it has become completely "dysfunctional"

and this part of what I said:

But given everything Gar has written, (and what Tyro has conveyed about his communications with him) it's pretty clear that that just ain't on the cards...

Was intended to convey that based on those factors, all the indications were that Gar was NOT going to take the actions that might lead to the CSB becoming "functional" again. ie deal with fundamental problem of:

an arbitrary and capricious Admin, who doesn't give one small damn what anybody there thinks except for her two buddies.

Hence, there would be only one "functional" board, not two....

And as I've said, everything that I have read that Gar has posted about this since I wrote that, has done nothing but further cement my view that this is the case.

Hopefully this will clear up the confusion.

[Gob]

I'm also confused about Quaddy, it's almost as if he wants the board to fail and be deleted as he wants the evidence of his stupidity, boasting, and lies, with regard to Joe, to vanish.

[The Hen]

Quad is a wannabe. He is a neverwas.

[Lord Jim]

There was a time when Quad had Steve's number just as well as anyone else:

Steve, honestly, perhaps for a day you can abandon the 'every post is a wry platitude reminding us how bad we have it compared to china' posting style and perhaps post on an actual topic, you talk about your car, or perhaps a circuit breaker or something? Give us 500 words on Farve and I will give you a fine 6-pack.

http://www.cybersoapbox.com/SMF/index.p ... #msg415349

The first time I recall him showing evidence of jumping to Steve's defense, was in that thread where Steve denied, (then admitted...then denied...then again admitted...then denied...and then finally admitted again, and even, at editec's prodding, apologized) ever having threatened to seek Joe out for the purpose of raping him.

Coincidentally, that discussion came up shortly after a particularly nasty exchange between Quad and Joe that included Joe talking about contacting Quad's boss....(Which Gwen warned Joe about...another reason for Quad to decide to join Camp Gwen....for the record, I also criticized Joe for that at the time)

I think that may have been what initially got Quad to decide to adopt the role he's taken on....

[Lord Jim]

@W REALLY knocked it out of the park with this one:

http://www.cybersoapbox.com/SMF/index.p ... #msg532810

Of course aside from dismissing it as name calling, it will no doubt have precisely zero impact on Gar....

Just as when Hen provided proof that Gwen had showed her fanny yet again, (with an assist from Kiko) in the "Kitty" thread, and rather than respond to it, Gar dismissed it as a "non-productive and negative sidebar"....

Yes, "Non-productive" indeed...

Because bringing Gar evidence of Gwen's malfeasance is a completely "non-productive" use of time, since he has no interest in dealing with it.

[loCAtek]

I thought she said that Gar left the board to crash and burn.....

Well that would explain her behavior.

Yes, that's why I bumped the 'Re-vitalizing the CSB' thread.

As for why Gar isn't gratifying anyone instantaneously, it reminds me of Nirvana lyrics;

Come as you are, as you were, as I want you to be.
As a friend, as a friend, as an old Enemy.
Take your time, hurry up, choice is yours, don't be late.
Take a rest, as a friend, as an old memory.

Memory ah, Memory ah, Memory ah.


Come doused in Mud, soaked in Bleach, as I want you to be.
As a trend, as a friend, as an old Memory ahhh.

Memory ahh, Memory ahh, Memory ahh.

Chorus:
And I swear that I don't have a gun
No, I don't have a gun
No, I don't have a gun

--Instrumental--

Memory ahh, Memory ahh, Memory ahh, Memory ahh. (Don't have a Gun.)

Chorus:
And I swear that I don't have a gun
No, I don't have a gun
No, I don't have a gun
No, I don't have a gun
No, I don't have a gun
(Memory ahh, Memory ahh)

[The Hen]

I know.

It has all come as a bit of a shock, I am sure and I am really sorry about that.

[Lord Jim]

As for why Gar isn't gratifying anyone instantaneously, it reminds me of Nirvana lyrics;

Well, LoCa, based on what he's posted so far, I can think of one person who should certainly feel instantaneously gratified...

Gwen...

[Crackpot]

What leads you all to think that Gwen has escaped unscathed?

It's damn sure by his tantrums Steve hasn't.

As for the rest they have a long history of pretending things are peachy keen while things are burning down in flames.

What's with the demand for instant gratification?
You take the fact that nothing has been publicly said not only as proof that nothing has been said to Gwen but also as implicit support.

1. general attitude on the board (most notably her attack dog) doesn't support that.
2. Gar isn't that stupid.

Right now Gar is searching for ways to remedy the problems rather than pick sides. THough he now seems to realize that it will not be possible unless people can publicly redress their grievances.

Also don't forget that when you're in the middle of a public and private email/posting free-for-all it gets hard to remember what was said to say to whom and when.

[Guinevere]

Agreed, CP, with everything you posted above. I think the fact that Gar has firmly taken control of the board again is a fact which tends to cut against Gwen's "gratification."

[Lord Jim]

What leads you all to think that Gwen has escaped unscathed?

CP, do you have a link to where she was "scathed"?

A link to where he's leveled a single word of criticism directed at her? (as opposed to everyone else, for whom he's had abundant criticism)

And if he's chastising her behind the scenes, then why is she publicly crowing about how they have "always agreed"?

I'm sorry, but I think that you and LoCa are holding on to an unrealistic optimism based on everything Gar has said.

He's basically parroted everything that Gwen has said in terms of what's wrong with the board, dismissed specific, substantive evidence of her misconduct, as "name calling" and "non productive negative sidebars", and done nothing but chastise others for their treatment towards her.

I suppose it's possible that Gar might wake up one morning and say,:

"Hey guys, you know all that stuff I've been saying? Fuget about it. I was just kidding. I really do understand that the core reason that the board has gotten to the point it's at is fundamentally because of Gwen's, arbitrary, capricious high handed, and biased mismanagement of the place, and I'm going to deal with the problem. As of today Gwen is out and I'm reversing the decisions she made that over ruled the clearly expressed views of the majority here, because I meant it when I said this is "your board" and I stand firmly by that principle. Now that I have put this problem behind us, let's move forward together in a spirit of mutual respect and goodwill, to make this the vibrant forum I know that we can make it be."

Yeah, that might happen...

And I might be cast as Scarlet O'Hara in a remake of Gone With The Wind....

[Crackpot]

And if he's chastising her behind the scenes, then why is she publicly crowing about how they have "always agreed"?

When has Gwen done anything but pretend things are peachy keen (especially when they're not)

I'm sorry, but I think that you and LoCa are holding on to an unrealistic optimism based on everything Gar has said.

That may be since I've had caontact with him beyond what's on the board

He's basically parroted everything that Gwen has said in terms of what's wrong with the board, dismissed specific, substantive evidence of her misconduct, as "name calling" and "non productive negative sidebars", and done nothing but chastise others for their treatment towards her.

Where was this?

I suppose it's possible that Gar might wake up one morning and say,:

"Hey guys, you know all that stuff I've been saying? Fuget about it. I was just kidding. I really do understand that the core reason that the board has gotten to the point it's at is fundamentally because of Gwen's, arbitrary, capricious high handed, and biased mismanagement of the place, and I'm going to deal with the problem. As of today Gwen is out and I'm reversing the decisions she made that over ruled the clearly expressed views of the majority here, because I meant it when I said this is "your board" and I stand firmly by that principle. Now that I have put this problem behind us, let's move forward together in a spirit of mutual respect and goodwill, to make this the vibrant forum I know that we can make it be."

Yeah, that might happen...

And I might be cast as Scarlet O'Hara in a remake of Gone With The Wind....

setting unbelievably high standards are we?

Seeing as Gar has voiced (to me) his intention to add a grievance forum (something that can be nothing more than a large headache for him) says he's interested in improving things there.