IS it wrong to ask what happened to CSB?

[Lord Jim]

The only thing I can see that Gwen is probably miffed about is the fact that she's had to put on an act by actually deigning to respond to people whom she detests, and who she feels it is beneath her to respond to. I'm sure she's not happy about that. I'm sure it grates on her ego.

Bu based on her saying this:

Quote from: Garaelb on June 22, 2010, 08:09:28 AM
I do not speak for Gwen

You may as regards things CSB.

We've always been pretty much on the same page, anyway.

Thank you for the courtesy, though. : )

She's clearly quite confident that she has Gar completely snowed, (or else she would have been concerned that by posting that, she was inviting him to say that wasn't true...obviously she wasn't worried about that happening)

And given what he has posted publicly, frankly, she has every reason to believe that she has him completely snowed. As a matter of fact, her being bold enough to post that claim suggests that she's getting even more reinforcement in this regard privately then she's been getting publicly.

[Lord Jim]

Oh, CP where to begin....

When has Gwen done anything but pretend things are peachy keen (especially when they're not)

Gwen has said they were peachy keen...

As far as her management is concerned....

She has long tried to say that the fundamental problem is some people acting so beastly...(which for her was just code for people she didn't like being beastly to people she did...she never saw anything wrong with her conduct or theirs) this was why she resisted tooth and nail doing anything to help re-vitalize the place.

And just like Gwen, he wants to focus exclusively on "the nastiness" (as though it just happened spontaneously for no reason; perhaps because the people who have engaged in it are just inherently malevolent folks) with no apparent interest in the core reason for how things got to this point. (Which would be absolutely essential if he were to have any realistic chance of righting the situation)

That may be since I've had caontact with him beyond what's on the board

Well, then I can only conclude that he must be saying things to you privately that directly contradict the clear impression his posts are leaving on the board.

Where was this?

As I said before CP, pretty much everywhere he posts...just pop into any thread where he's discussed the condition of the board and you'll see that the evidence abounds...(what do you suppose that bit about the need to be "polite" to the "volunteers" running the board was about?)

I'm still waiting for that link to where he actually directly criticizes Gwen's management of the board in any way, btw....

setting unbelievably high standards are we?

Ahh, now we come to it....

What I described in that fantasy Gar post, should have been the logical starting point for Gar, if he really "gets it" in terms of what would have to be done to really turn the CSB around....

The fact that it can instead be accurately described as an " unbelievably high standard" (based on everything Gar has indicated about his thinking on this) really illustrates the crux of the problem....

Seeing as Gar has voiced (to me) his intention to add a grievance forum (something that can be nothing more than a large headache for him) says he's interested in improving things there.

ETA:
Wow...

You and I really have completely different takes on that....

I see a "grievance forum" as nothing but a way for Gar to try and contain criticism in a single place in order to make it more easy to ignore and pay lip service to...A diversion designed to substitute for actually doing something...a place for complaints to go to die...

If he really wants to "improve" things, he doesn't need a "grievance forum"...Good lord, surely he must know what the grievances are by now....

It ain't rocket surgery. Just deal with the fundamental problem, and stop spinning your wheels with "grievance forums" and "buddy buttons". If he actually deals with the core problem, he won't need a "grievance forum"...

There won't be that many "grievances"...

[tyro]

Lord Jim said:

The key word here is "functional"

Nice dancing, but…

I don’t think I conveyed anything to suggest that the CSB ceased, or would become dysfunctional.

As far as I can remember, the only thing I said was that Garaelb was the original instigator of the limited time to edit a post and that we shouldn’t wait to see the edit time relaxed as some proof that he is back in charge.

Doesn’t matter much today, he has clearly indicated in his more recent posting that he is now back in charge and so anyone waiting for the day when Gwen would no longer be the sole administrator can roll out the keg and pass around the party hats.

I have had faith in the resiliency of the CSB throughout this upheaval. I am on record for saying that on both boards. So I still wish to distance myself (taking anything I conveyed with me) from your conclusion.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, just please, don’t take me along for the ride.

[Lord Jim]

Nice dancing, but…

Sorry Tyro...

But while I have an excellent singing voice, I can't dance. The only way you're going to get me to "dance" is if you shoot at my feet.

I don’t think I conveyed anything to suggest that the CSB ceased, or would become dysfunctional.

First, I take it as a given, that the CSB is currently dysfunctional. (Gar himself has described it as being "in crisis")

And when you made clear that Gar would do nothing about (what is this, the sixth? seventh? time I keep trying to get you to focus the fundamental issue rather than the surface one... ):

the fact that a fundamental change was made in the board's functionality that had been in place for years. A lengthy discussion on the subject took place, and a vote was held. The position of the Admin was overwhelmingly rejected by the membership. The Admin decided to impose her position anyway.

And:

You made clear in your post, that based on your discussion with Gar, he's good with that. The fact that he apparently has no problem with that, shows to me that the whole "this is your board" concept was nothing but a bunch of empty hooey, and proves that he "doesn't get it" in terms of understanding what has become the fundamental problem at the CSB,and what led to a lot of people walking out. Namely, the problem of an arbitrary and capricious Admin, who doesn't give one small damn what anybody there thinks except for her two buddies. Her over ruling of the majority on the editing issue is but the purest and most glaring example of this fundamental problem.

In my view, intentional or not you made VERY CLEAR...

That Gar had the wrong end of the stick about what the real problem is at the CSB and that it will not (unless he has a complete change of heart) become a functional board again. (Or if you prefer, to use his term be brought out of "crisis")

Certainly not in the sense that this:

I have always said that this is "your" board, I am merely the benign caretaker.

Would amount to anything more than an empty platitude.

I'm sorry if you're unhappy about the clear implication of your words.

Look, we can play this game endlessly, I suppose....

You repeatedly insisting on focusing on the surface issue, and ignoring the fundamental one it brought to the fore....

Me repeatedly reposting the fundamental issue, to put the focus once again where it properly belongs...

Hey, it's no problem for me...(especially now that I've reposted it so many times, I no longer have to re-type it....If you want to continue with this, perhaps I should save the text in a word document, so I can save myself the trouble of having to scroll back to find it again.)

But it seems like sort of waste of time and bandwidth...

I'm not going to allow the impression to be left that the fundamental issue here was nothing more important the editing time limit in and of itself.

So every time you attempt to leave that impression, please rest assured I'll be coming right behind you to correct that impression.

[Crackpot]

Where was this?

As I said before CP, pretty much everywhere he posts...just pop into any thread where he's discussed the condition of the board and you'll see that the evidence abounds...(what do you suppose that bit about the need to be "polite" to the "volunteers" running the board was about?)

So in other words it's with the pictures of nooses etc.. etc..

I'm still waiting for that link to where he actually directly criticizes Gwen's management of the board in any way, btw....

Why? No one has disputed it! ::Knock Knock:: McFly? Hello McFly!? In fact (for the umpteenth time) I've been saying that were are at (past) the point where names have to be named.

What I described in that fantasy Gar post, should have been the logical starting point for Gar, if he really "gets it" in terms of what would have to be done to really turn the CSB around....

At this point beyond a chronological reading of all the posts that have have happened there for the past 3+ years he is unable to fully "get it" it is a logistical impossibility.

The fact that it can instead be accurately described as an " unbelievably high standard" (based on everything Gar has indicated about his thinking on this) really illustrates the crux of the problem....

Care to mediate the dispute that arose between my aunts and Uncles arising from the settling of my Grandparents estate? Most everyone agrees that My uncle was acting like an ass so you should have no problem coming to a fair and unbiased judgement.

I see a "grievance forum" as nothing but a way for Gar to try and contain criticism in a single place in order to make it more easy to ignore and pay lip service to...

It was my suggestion. and what I suggested is nothing like that.

A diversion designed to substitute for actually doing something...a place for complaints to go to die...

any evidence for that?

If he really wants to "improve" things, he doesn't need a "grievance forum"...Good lord, surely he must know what the grievances are by now....

You haven't even got through the last 3 months of posts here.

It ain't rocket surgery. Just deal with the fundamental problem, and stop spinning your wheels with "grievance forums" and "buddy buttons". If he actually deals with the core problem, he won't need a "grievance forum"...

We need which burning!

[Rick]

We need which burning!

Which burning would you like?

Specifically...

[Crackpot]

dam homonyms.

[Lord Jim]

okay, let's avoid the gay bashing please....

[tyro]

And when you made clear that Gar would do nothing about (what is this, the sixth? seventh? time I keep trying to get you to focus the fundamental issue rather than the surface one... ):

And for the umpteenth time plus one, I said nothing to support your conclusion that the CSB is dysfunctional.

Frankly it doesn’t matter a rat’s ass if it is, it is simply that I didn’t say it was. Furthermore I didn’t convey any information to support that assertion.

Did I?




I'm done with this issue

[Lord Jim]

I said nothing to support your conclusion that the CSB is dysfunctional.

I'm sorry but the implications of what you said manifestly and absolutely supported that, for reasons I have tried to explain to you, in great detail, over and over again. I'm sorry if you're not getting this, or are refusing to get it. I'm sorry if you don't like the clear implications of what you said. I stand by my analysis 100%.

Furthermore I didn’t convey any information to support that assertion.

Did I?

Yes, you absolutely did. The information you conveyed about what Gar's position was on the fundamental issue supported that assertion, by definition. I could repost my last response which thoroughly explains this, but I think I'll just suggest that you go back and read it again.

[loCAtek]

To CP's post; Also add, Gar's done more posting and interacting in the last month, than he has in the last 4 years. A major change occurring with that is: as of his return, Gwen is no longer sole admin. She has to work with Gar. There are co-admins.
I wouldn't call that being 'scathed', but that was the principle behind the membership movement, and it has been achieved. We (or the CSB does) have an Admin that is more than willing to address the readership;

author=Garaelb
I am not opposed to clearing the obstructions that inhibit members from communicating directly with the staff. Quite the opposite I am in favor of such.

Now that I have returned I am stilll playing catch up on most of the issues of the board itself. I am still not back to the same level of activity that I was when the CSB was younger. It was, at that time, a very time consuming role. It is still a time consuming role for anyone who sits in the big chair, wears the top hat, and assumes the head honcho role for the board. And make no mistake I am not now nor have I ever complained about that. So don't mistake this as a moan and groan about being Administrator to and of the CSB.

However, I have to respect his integrity to the principle on which CSB was founded, that

author=Garaelb
BTY the quote in my signature line has not changed in 8 years. I still believe it says it all as to my agenda for the CSB. -- WebElf of the CSB - "No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - WilliamTaft

Garaelb did ask for our input and continues to do so.
In looking at the big picture, if Plan A was to leave things as they were and Plan B was to scrap all that; then a Plan C or D, is going to take a great deal of creativity and 'thinking outside of the [soap]box. Making things personal, or emotional isn't usually a good planning strategy to a big project.

[Gob]

I'm happy to play the "wait and see" game here guys.

I don't think much will be achieved by falling out over here about things which may or may not take place over there...

Please vent all you like, but remember, we have this place, the CSB has Gwen Steve and Edi still.

That in itself has to be a good thing.

Now can I ban rubato please?

[The Hen]

No you fucking can't.

[Lord Jim]

Now can I ban rubato please?

Look for Quad to now post about how you're mounting an effort to have rubato banned....

[BoSoxGal]

Now can I ban rubato please?

Don't you dare!

I likes me some rubato, every now and then.

[kristina]

Now can I ban rubato please?

Don't you dare!

I likes me some rubato, every now and then.

what she said!!!

[@meric@nwom@n]

I am stunned, stunned I tell you to come home tonight and find absolutely no response from Garwin on what I posted.

He sure showed me.

[@meric@nwom@n]

It might have been the bit where I referred to him as being sans balls.

But hey, I just call 'em like I see 'em.

[The Hen]

I think he is doing work behind the scenes to clean things up at present.

I personally reckon that up-front would be better, but he is but just one Web-Elf and it has been sometime since he was posting.

[@meric@nwom@n]

Behind the scenes? Is that some sort of code for kissing Gwen's ass?