I'm confused ... please help.

[The Hen]

OK folks, I have a conundrum.

Which members of Plan B can be described as continuously maligning the CSB and G-Man?

I will nominate Lord Jim as having concerns with the G-Man and the desicion to limit editing. (However, I thought that had all gone to the way-side once the G-Man came to the party and extended the editing time.)

I will also nominate Bette-on-it as riding the G-Man a bit. (But then she rides everyone a bit.)

Other than those two Plan B'ers, which others of you buggers can be describe as above?

I have asked the person who raised these allegations directly with me, but they fell back on the piss-weak argument of "read it for yourself". Seeing I have read all the threads myself and can only come up with these two possibilities, can anyone else help me who these people might be?

[Guinevere]

Hen, I think many of us have read the threads over there and know that no one is continuously maligning the CSB and Gar. There is some of the usual name-calling and re-inventing going on, but it has very little to do with the CSB itself, or Gar at all.

And if your person does truly think that's the case, why don't they just bring it up directly with whoever they think is causing the problem. Else its just an exercise in speculation, name-calling, and innuendo. In sum: more of the same crap that helped destroy the CSB in the first place.

[Rick]

I nominate Lo as always to his defense...

[Sue U]

I wouldn't know anything about this; apparently I am still considered a spammer and banned from the CSB.

[Crackpot]

You still can't get in? Gar said he fixed it

[Rick]

I wouldn't know anything about this; apparently I am still considered a spammer and banned from the CSB.

I let him know you were a kitten killer and that he had better get to jumpin.

Well not exactly but I did mention the kitten killer part...

[Guinevere]

Sue, Gar says he has your addy and so I assume will be in touch.

And make sure to deny deny deny the kitten killer part, ok . . .

[The Hen]

Hen, I think many of us have read the threads over there and know that no one is continuously maligning the CSB and Gar. There is some of the usual name-calling and re-inventing going on, but it has very little to do with the CSB itself, or Gar at all.

That was my reading of the threads.

And if your person does truly think that's the case, why don't they just bring it up directly with whoever they think is causing the problem. Else its just an exercise in speculation, name-calling, and innuendo. In sum: more of the same crap that helped destroy the CSB in the first place.

That was my thinking as well Guin.

I have no idea why this isn't brought up directly with whomever this person thinks is entering into such behaviour. However, I do know that I am not happy having unsubstaniated allegations raised with me about the Plan B Members.

[Guinevere]

Hen, unless and until such person comes forward with something more than anonymous unsubstantiated comments, I think you should just give the issue the respect it deserves - ignore it. How can you worry about something that can't even be discussed in concrete terms? As for it being brought up with you -- I'm pretty sure you are not our den mother, babysitter, or anything similar.

[Lord Jim]

I have no idea why this isn't brought up directly with whomever this person thinks is entering into such behaviour.

Well, there's a real good reason they can't do that...

There's nothing to the charges, so there's nothing to confront anyone with, beyond the charge itself....

What the record shows, is that the only one who could possibly have been said to "malign" Gar, was of course Steve, when he kept attacking him for deciding to create a commercially viable web site....(My discussions with Gar were uniformly civil, and there hasn't been a single further thing said in that discussion since the 25th of July)

The reason they, (and by "they" I mean first and foremost Gwen, followed by Steve, to a certain extent editec, and now joined by Quad, because of his own agenda) have cooked up this "maligning Gar" nonsense is to try and support their myth about how they themselves did nothing to bring on the condemnation they've received....

It was all because of the need that others somehow have for "targets"...they're pushing a lie about how anybody running the place is going to be "maligned" no matter who they are or what they do, because the "maligners" are somehow fundamentally big meanies who just get their jollies running around attacking the innocent....

This is complete rubbish, but they continue to spew this sort of crap, because they have nothing else....

They have no quotes they can point to to back up any of this, they have no statistics, they have no specifics...

And of course they never respond when confronted with any of these things....

They have absolutely nothing except the pulled out of their fannies, wild assed accusations themselves....

And when someone throws the specifics in their faces, they completely ignore them for the good and simple reason that they have absolutely nothing of substance to counter with....they just repeat the lies over and over, presumably in the hope that if they repeat them enough, maybe somebody will think there might be something to it...

Some of the more ridiculous lies told recently (in addition to the "need for targets" maligning Gar and the CSB crapola:

That Gar decided that he would not post on his new board because I had somehow driven him off..(Gwen, Steve and editec)

The spam attackers were "Hen's friends"...(Quad)

The Plan Bers came back to the CSB to destroy it (All four)

(of course given the fact that Gwen had already succeeded in driving the CSB down to just eight primary participants, one could be excused for wondering how "destroying" would even be possible)

I chose Gwen as a target just for the hell of it, and all my complaints against her are just repeats of things I said about others. (Gwen)

(The reality of course, is that I defended Gwen vociferously for months, even while more and more folks turned against her, and that the complaints I had about her related specifically to her conduct)

I was trying to stop Gar from commercializing the site. (Steve)

(the reality of course is, that from the very day Gar re-opened the site, it was Steve who repeatedly criticized Gar for this, while the only thing I wrote on the subject was fully supportive)

If there's one thing this little group has shown a total facility for it is the willingness to lie with absolute shamelessness...This is the way they behaved when they were on top, and it is they way they behave now...

It is the only way they know how to behave, and it's the only weapon they have

They do it, because the alternative...acknowledging their dishonesty and culpability...or even simply saying nothing...is utterly unacceptable to them...

Brazen lying is what they've always done, they have absolutely no compunction about it....it's an approach that is completely within their comfort zone, and they're good with it.

[Guinevere]

As I posted over there, all the more reason to ignore it all and move on. Why give it any more credence? We're done with drama for drama's sake.

[The Hen]

I'll tell you why I gave it credence Guin. It was the G-Man who made the claims.

Now, the G avoids my PM questions as (as I beleive) his claim doesn't have a rum-soaked leg to support it.

I just wanted to make certain I was not mis-reading what had been written but rather it was the G-Man mis-reading what was written.

[Gob]

I'm only pissed that I've lost my position as the gang leader there, and, according to the triumvirate it's now Jim whose leading the Plan B barbarians hordes against the CSB!

You sod Jim, you've usurped me.

[The Hen]

They get a tad confused about who they are accusing of what. It comes from not having anything to substantiate the allegations.

I guess that is why I was told to re-read the stuff that had been written without having my question answered. I was just surprised of the source.

[Scooter]

It's sounding more and more like Gar has downed an entire pitcher of the koolaid the troika have been serving up over there.

No doubt spiked with a fair dose of booze.

[Gob]

I have to agree there Scoot.

[Lord Jim]

Well, I don't get it...

I'm puzzled...

Bette certainly had some needling things to say about Gar, but she really didn't post all that much....

The one who's been the most critical of him is Steve, by a country mile....

As for "maligning" the board....

I really haven't seen any of that going on....

Unless of course, one confuses pointing out the outrageous lies, smears and revisionism of the former admin and her small claque of cohorts with "maligning" the board....

Pointing out the damage she did, and correcting her Alice In Wonderland interpretation of her role and that of others isn't 'maligning" the board....

It's a public service.

[Guinevere]

I absolutely disagree with you that "its a public service." The board, the members, the community, each of us is prefectly capable of deciding for ourselves who is truthful and who is not. Just because we don't join in the drama-fest doesn't mean we don't have opinions.

Seriously, get over it already and move on, the horse is long dead.

As to Gar's complaints, it seems to me (again) it they are actual complaints he should take them up with whoever he has issues with. I don't understand why he hasn't or wouldn't -- doesn't seem like him to me (as much as I know or knew him, which isn't a lot). Not to mention, as I said before, Hen isn't in charge of any of us. I guess I just don't get it.

[Joe Guy]

Personally, I like reading Lord Jim's public service notices.

The very nature of the CSB (in my opinion) is about people being held to a standard that requires proof to back up things they write, whether it be an opinion or a fact.

It (should) stop people from bringing up subjects for discussion that are not based on facts. For example, people learn things when a "fact" is brought up for discussion and then someone posts a link to Snopes that shows that it is actually an urban legend.

Lord Jim is sort of a Snopes-guy when it comes to the fantasy facts that are often brought up by people like quaddriver, Gwen & Steve.

It also prevents me from writing a lot more nasty stuff. LJ has a better way of phrasing things than I do sometimes and he always backs up his assertions - so I often don't need to write anything - and of course that would be "piling on" or "dogpiling" if I did - according to the Queenston Trio.

Okay, I don't want to say too many good things about LJ. His ego doesn't need to be fed.

Also, he has this weird thing about Ronald Reagan, so he has some mental problems.

[Lord Jim]

Great post Joe Guy! VERY insightful....

Frankly, I couldn't have said it better myself.....

(Except for that last line of course...)