School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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MajGenl.Meade
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School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Not untypical of educational achievement in South Africa. This one's near Port Elizabeth.

The US$4 million Gqebera school was closed two months ago due to lack of pupils, despite efforts of local residents and schoolchildren to keep it open

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Two months later... local residents and schoolchildren have carried it off, brick by brick

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The looting of Gqebera High has angered many residents, with some saying they had fought to keep the school open, only to see it reduced to nothing in a matter of weeks. A 22-year-old former pupil, who only identified himself as Sbonda, said they had marched a number of times to try to save the school before it was closed.

“It’s painful seeing it reduced to this,” he said. “Over the years, some of the teachers even put their own money into the school to keep it running and we even had to sleep in the school computer labs while it was open to prevent break-ins. We understood that there were only a few pupils but that was not the point. I tried to prevent people from taking away the pieces of the school, but you can’t stand alone in front of a thousand people because you will be putting your life in danger”

Kholisile Bobi, 49, said it was frustrating to see people looting the school, even though there was almost nothing left to steal anymore.

“My child went to that school so it is heartbreaking to see this. After the school closed down, we saw people from Veeplaas stripping it down. We would hear sounds and see people busy in the middle of the night while we slept. So residents got frustrated and also started stripping the school.”

Fezekile Grootboom, 42, said people started stealing computers before the school closed down. “The community contributed greatly to the vandalism. People would just wake up on a random day and decide they needed bricks for projects and go get them. Even my next door neighbours’ new paving is made from those materials.”

While some of the residents have built or added on to their properties with the material, others are selling it to make a quick buck
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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

Post by BoSoxGal »

What's the deal - there was no funding for the school? Not enough people were willing to send their kids to be educated? Are parents charged school fees? Tell us more . . .
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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

Post by rubato »

I would deplore rather a level of poverty which would lead people to steal humble building materials. They are acquiring them at a substantial cost in time and very hard physical labor. Speaking as someone who helped a friend shift several pallets of bricks from his front yard to the sides and back.

The crippling effects of apartheid will takes generations to undo.



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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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bigskygal wrote:What's the deal - there was no funding for the school? Not enough people were willing to send their kids to be educated? Are parents charged school fees? Tell us more . . .
Another question...

If this went on for "weeks" where the hell were the cops?
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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

Post by Big RR »

I was thinking the same thing; even in a poor area a building like that could have a lot more publicly beneficial uses than allowing profiteers to strip it. Somehow I bet some of this is due to bureaucracy, where the board od education closed it and wouldn't allow it to be used for anything else. And perhaps the local police were also ticked off and looked the other way (or started the dismantling).

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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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And perhaps the local police were also ticked off and looked the other way (or started the dismantling).
or were paid off...
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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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A formal township of that size and that many RDP houses (I speak from experience) would have no difficulty finding enough secondary age children to attend the school. However, the school population had dropped from 1,000 to 350 during a process in which vandalism caused parents and some teachers to move their children elsewhere. The many candidates from nearby informal settlements were not taken into the school by the Education department. The pupil/teacher ratio inaugurated a "redeployment" of staff:
THE Eastern Cape Department of Education’s announcement that extra teachers at schools must move or face the music has angered pupils. On Friday, pupils of Gqebera High School at Govan Mbeki, Port Elizabeth, held three education officials hostage as they were serving 13 teachers out of 20 with letters of redeployment. Cops were called to rescue the officials. After negotiations with pupils, the officials were released.

Pupils blocked the gates and chanted: “Our teachers are going nowhere. Taking them will kill our bright future.” Lonwabo Quntu (22), chairman of the school representative council, told Daily Sun: “Our school is battling because the department doesn’t give it the necessary support. There’s no electricity and laboratories because of vandalism. These dedicated teachers are our only source of hope. Instead of helping us, the department is taking our teachers away. We won’t go back to the classes until the department leaves our teachers alone.”

Nokuphumla Sikawuti of the school governing body said, “We are against the redeployment of teachers at this school. The school has been vandalised but these teachers are working hard.”

Eastern Cape MEC for Education Mandla Makupula said: “Excess teachers are urged to use this opportunity to approach their district offices and voluntarily identify schools with vacancies that match their skills. The department is currently considering various options. They include possible withdrawal of salaries for teachers who continue to ignore the directive on movement of teachers.”
A source told Algoa FM News that when the school, which became the responsibility of the Department of Education after it was built by Public Works, was no longer being used for its "core function, it had to be returned to the Department of Public Works. (The source says this is is the same with other government-owned buildings)

This did not happen with Gqebera High School because the Department of Education apparently had plans to use it to accommodate learners from several nearby informal settlements where schools are over-crowded.
Which is all a bit of a disappointment for Vodacom (note the date):
Vodacom donates computer centre to Gqebera school
Friday 14 June 2013 | 10:27 CET | News
South Africa's Vodacom Millionaires donated a fully equipped computer centre with internet access to learners from the Gqebera Secondary School in a bid to improve the standard of education in the Eastern Cape region. Vodacom Millionaires is a TV game show sponsored by the mobile operator that gives away four computer centres to schools across the country every month. As part of this donation the school received 20 learner laptops, one educator laptop, and an interactive white board, projector, a server, printer, cartridges and 700 MB of data monthly. All the donated equipment is maintained for two years. All teachers receive training and will continue to receive support via a dedicated call centre.
As to the SAPS:
EASTERN Cape’s troubled education department has been hit by another problem – looting.
Today 12 people are in jail for allegedly stealing roof tiles, paving, electric cables, windows, bricks, rafters, water taps, the fence, chairs and desks.Passing motorists complained to cops that Gqebera High School in Port Elizabeth’s Govan Mbeki kasi was being broken down and stripped. When the school was closed after June exams as a result of low pupil numbers, some residents started stealing things.

On Wednesday the residents were screaming at KwaDwesi cops who came to arrest them. “Empty buildings like these pose a danger to society. They are hideouts for criminals,” said the residents. But cops arrested them, raided their homes and seized the stolen goods. The 12 suspects will face justice in court soon, but only if officials lay charges.

Station commander Lieutenant-Colonel Gerard Saayman said: “On Wednesday we arrested nine people for possession of stolen property.This follows three arrests we made last Saturday. We arrested the suspects and confiscated roof trusses, beams, fencing, paving and bricks. The suspects were physically breaking down the building. We also confiscated a truck and two bakkies used to transport stolen goods.”

But he said the Education and Public Works departments don’t want to come forward and lay charges of vandalism of their buildings.
“Until they come forward and lay charges, the suspects can’t be prosecuted.” The school was built in 1995 and was in good condition when it was closed. “It’s sad when the community destroys its own school,” said Saayman. “We confiscated a lot of school property in nearby houses. But I don’t have enough manpower to guard the school.”

Suspected looters said: “Our RDPs are too small. We strip the school to extend our houses.”

Loyiso Phulumani, spokesman for the Department of Education in the province, said the school was handed over to the public works department which then became responsible for it.
RDP = Rural Development Programme. South Africa is the only country in the world to guarantee a house free of charge to every citizen (below a certain income level). The first low cost housing projects were generally a two room brick work structure with corrugated iron roof sheeting. Over the years the design of the house improved a lot. It now consist of a five room brickwork structure with either corrugated iron roof sheeting or clay roof tiles. Lights and electricity are supplied and a geyser for hot water is an option. Travelling across the county, one now sees thousands of these houses with solar heated geysers up on the roof - that was not the rule 6 years ago. A big problem of RDP is that a person given a house often rents it out, returns to the tin shack in the informal settlement and aids grandma (still in the shack) to get another RDP which in turn is then rented out. Sometimes they are even sold - which is illegal.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

Post by rubato »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:....

RDP = Rural Development Programme. South Africa is the only country in the world to guarantee a house free of charge to every citizen (below a certain income level). The first low cost housing projects were generally a two room brick work structure with corrugated iron roof sheeting. Over the years the design of the house improved a lot. It now consist of a five room brickwork structure with either corrugated iron roof sheeting or clay roof tiles. Lights and electricity are supplied and a geyser for hot water is an option. Travelling across the county, one now sees thousands of these houses with solar heated geysers up on the roof - that was not the rule 6 years ago. A big problem of RDP is that a person given a house often rents it out, returns to the tin shack in the informal settlement and aids grandma (still in the shack) to get another RDP which in turn is then rented out. Sometimes they are even sold - which is illegal.

That does not make sense. How can they rent out the house if the renters are also guaranteed a free house? How can they sell a house which is just like one which the buyer can get for free?

I don't believe it.

I'd like to see a solar heated geyser though.


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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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How can they rent out the house if the renters are also guaranteed a free house? How can they sell a house which is just like one which the buyer can get for free?
I was wondering the same thing...
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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

Post by Joe Guy »

Most likely by renting to people who don't qualify for a free house - like non-citizens and people above the qualifying income level.

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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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You're overlooking that the people renting/purchasing either do not qualify for the free home (usually because they make too much money to qualify) or are unwilling to wait. (Oh well done Joe)

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Renting, sale of RDP houses major headache for Metro
By Sithembele Sakati

East London - The sale and renting out of RDP homes is becoming a major headache for one Eastern Cape municipality.

Buffalo City Metro Municipality (BCMM) spokesperson, Samkelo Gqeba, said the metro has received a number of complaints about recipients of RDP houses profiting illegally from their subsidised homes.

"As part of its housing education campaigns, the metro discourages people from selling or renting because this impacts negatively on government's efforts to curb informal settlements," said Gqeba. He said of major concern is what is going to happen when work is finally complete on two major housing projects in the metro, in Reeston and Mdantsane. The low-cost housing projects are a joint venture between the metro and the provincial Human Settlements Department.

He said people that abuse the housing subsidy scheme can be prosecuted under sections 10A and 10B of the Housing Act 107 of 1997, which makes it illegal for beneficiaries to sell or let subsidised low-cost. Recipients only receive full property titles eight years after they have occupied the houses.

Reeston Location shack dweller, Nombaliso Sindaphi, 57, said he knows of many people who don't want to live in their RDP houses and who have sold them or rented them out. "It makes me angry to see recipients rent out the houses. I applied for an RDP house more than 10 years ago and I'm still living in a shack," said Sindaphi.

Sanele Ngcwalisa, 30, said people in Reeston are renting out their houses because it's inconvenient for them to live there. "Some of the recipients have lived in Mdantsane for more than 15 years and get given a house in Reeston. No one wants to move to a new area after such a long time," said Ngcwalisa.
BARELY six months after receiving new government houses, Second Creek residents in East London, who previously lived in squalor on the former dumpsite, are allegedly illegally selling or renting out these houses. The houses built on a raft or strip foundations, with masonry walls plastered inside and outside, a ceiling with insulation and topped with red roof tiles, were handed over to the residents in November last year.

During the handover by mayor Zukiswa Ncitha and MEC for local government and traditional affairs, Mlibo Qoboshiyane, residents were urged not to sell their houses. Despite this, two Daily Dispatch reporters were offered to buy these houses for an amount of R10 000 to R30 000 by beneficiaries. The 40m² standalone houses consist of two bedrooms, a kitchen with a sink, a dining room and a bathroom with a flushing toilet, bathtub and basin.

Ward councillor in the area, Derek Green said the houses belonged to the government and the buyers were just wasting their money.
“The beneficiaries do not even have title deeds yet, so the houses are not officially theirs.” Green said letters will be sent to the occupants selling these houses informing them to move back into their houses immediately, failing which their names will be removed from the beneficiary list.

Yesterday community liaison officer in the area, Nosiphiwo Gxabashe confirmed that there were occupants who sold or are renting out their houses. “These are the same people who cried for help when we lived in poor conditions on the dumpsite,” said Gxabashe.
Gxabashe said they had noticed there were a lot of strangers moving into the houses and some beneficiaries would say those were relatives. “But we have established that they were lying,” said Gxabashe, who said a meeting would be held soon to address this matter.

Another beneficiary Thabo Ngxule said this was like a slap in government’s face by selfish individuals who are greedy. “These are the same people that said they were neglected by government,” said Ngxule. Another resident who asked not to be named confidently admitted that she was looking for a buyer. “Yes, I am happy to have a house, but I am also hungry,” said the resident, who is now renting out her house and living with someone else.

Spokesman for the department of human settlement Lwandile Sicwetsha said the selling of these government houses was illegal and a violation of a Housing Act. “Government house occupants are not allowed to sell their houses in the first eight years of receiving it.
This is just an exchange of money, meaning that the buyer will be evicted from that house. People who sell their houses will never get another house from government,” said Sicwetsha.
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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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Good wits doe jumpe.

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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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so it is just a matter of setting the entitlement at the correct level and they have failed to do this.

ok, so fix it and stop whinging.

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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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Joe Guy wrote:Good wits doe jumpe.
I assume you were referring to me and rube... :D


Now I have another question:
Ward councillor in the area, Derek Green said the houses belonged to the government and the buyers were just wasting their money.
“The beneficiaries do not even have title deeds yet, so the houses are not officially theirs.”...

Spokesman for the department of human settlement Lwandile Sicwetsha said the selling of these government houses was illegal and a violation of a Housing Act. “Government house occupants are not allowed to sell their houses in the first eight years of receiving it.
This is just an exchange of money, meaning that the buyer will be evicted from that house.
I assume that given this, the government must be doing a very poor job of educating the public about the fact that if you "buy" one of these homes, you have in effect bought nothing...
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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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Ah no. What he was saying is that the beneficiary of the RDP house has been named but the title has not yet been transferred to that person. But in any case, the recipient cannot rent or transfer the RDP for eight years. So if, in the meantime, the person lucky enough to get the free house has taken money from a "buyer", then that buyer is sol because the government can just toss 'em out. How does the "buyer" get around that? Well he bribes someone in the government to issue him a certificate of title which may or may not be of any use - but it happens a lot. Land scams with local registrars taking bribes is (ahem) a land-office business in SA

rubato, I'm sure if they said everyone who made R1million a year or less was entitled to an RDP house that would indeed solve... nothing. There is no way the gov't can afford to extend the benefit to higher incomes than currently used (it is of course elevated from time to time due to inflation). The people who buy RDP houses have way more money than any sensible scheme could encompass. Even if they don't, a dirt poor man with an RDP house is happy to rent it to another dirt poor man because money is worth more than four walls and a loo - living in an RDP with no income is a lot worse than living in grandma's shack for free and making some rent money.

I had no idea until I lived in SA the lengths people must go to to make a living
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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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Lord Jim wrote:
Joe Guy wrote:Good wits doe jumpe.
I assume you were referring to me and rube... :D
That's exactly what I meant.... 8-)
Lord Jim wrote:....I assume that given this, the government must be doing a very poor job of educating the public about the fact that if you "buy" one of these homes, you have in effect bought nothing...
I'm surprised I haven't gotten an email from them offering to sell me a home. I'm sure I could probably afford a couple of those homes as soon as I collect my fortune from Bubu Maka Miz Taka in Nigeria.

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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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MajGenl.Meade wrote:Ah no. What he was saying is that the beneficiary of the RDP house has been named but the title has not yet been transferred to that person. But in any case, the recipient cannot rent or transfer the RDP for eight years. So if, in the meantime, the person lucky enough to get the free house has taken money from a "buyer", then that buyer is sol because the government can just toss 'em out. How does the "buyer" get around that? Well he bribes someone in the government to issue him a certificate of title which may or may not be of any use - but it happens a lot. Land scams with local registrars taking bribes is (ahem) a land-office business in SA

rubato, I'm sure if they said everyone who made R1million a year or less was entitled to an RDP house that would indeed solve... nothing. There is no way the gov't can afford to extend the benefit to higher incomes than currently used (it is of course elevated from time to time due to inflation). The people who buy RDP houses have way more money than any sensible scheme could encompass. Even if they don't, a dirt poor man with an RDP house is happy to rent it to another dirt poor man because money is worth more than four walls and a loo - living in an RDP with no income is a lot worse than living in grandma's shack for free and making some rent money.

I had no idea until I lived in SA the lengths people must go to to make a living


OK, so the deal is that they wanted to make life better for poor folks by giving them a free house. And the poor folks in question, being human beings and not lab rats, figured out a way that the free house would give more value to them than if they lived in it themselves and had the energy and ambition to put that plan into effect. And now you're mad about it?

I just don't see a problem here.

Just get the hell over it and move on is what I'd do.


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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

You really are a poison dwarf, aren't you? Where did I say that I am "mad" about it? To the contrary, my position is one of sympathy having spent time with such folks in the townships.

I suggest you share your ignorance with the South African government who are not happy with the situation, for some inexplicable reason
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Re: School's out (forever). The keep it open plan

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Rube is simply a mean, nasty, vindictive shit. I truly think he is one of the few people whose death will be entirely beneficial to the human race.
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

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