US Open Controversy

[BoSoxGal]

I can’t peomise that; I do occasionally become so exasperated that I do threaten to check out - and on at least one occasion took a couple of years off. Hopefully we won’t lose Guin entirely - but she has also left for many months at a time before, and I suspect she’ll be gone for a while now, too. What’s most troubling to me about that is that the really sophomoric sexism she was immediately reacting to comes from someone who has brought very little positive to this forum - wesw. I’m not normally an advocate of banning anyone and I’m not advocating banning wesw, either - but it’s just sad he’s such a loathesome little prick so very much of the time. We ALL have our moments (okay, maybe not kristina), but it would sure be nice to see wesw bring some balance to the energy he shares here. I was dismayed to see him return for that very reason; I just wish he would be a little bit less of a total puke.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Coming back to the OT: I thought Serena was wrong. Context: I thought the French ban on her 'catsuit' was asinine even without the medical reason. There should be some criteria for both men and women based on general standard of modesty - no tits or balls flapping in the wind - but other than that, nothing. If Wimbledon wants to maintain a white criterion that's fine - a nod to the old days, but otherwise no limits. I remember someone in a catsuit there maybe 15 or 20 years ago. And the warning to Alize Cornet re changing her shirt was idiotic. I think (not sure) that the umpire was applying the letter of the law which is why the law should be changed.

Serena's coach was coaching. 'Everyone does it' really isn't an excuse. She wasn't being called a cheat. Her coach was called for a penalty; and if say in ice hockey the coach offends the ref then someone from the team has to go to the box and the team suffers. It seemed that she had accepted it and everyone moved on as usually happens. But then Serena hit her racket on the ground. Was the umpire supposed to ignore it? There is a school of thought, prevalent in ice hockey and probably in other sports that I don't follow, that in the closing minutes of a close game or in OT the ref should put his whistle in his pocket so as not to influence the game. To me that's nonsensical. If the ref does not call a tripping penalty he is in fact inserting himself into the game by not penalizing someone who deserves it.

I don't think that Serena usually smashes her racket when she loses a game. But she knew she had had a warning already so she knew exactly what the penalty would be.

[Big RR]

andy--I agree with you if what is being penalized could potentially affect the game; in the case of coaching, it could. smashing the racquet--IMHO it only hurts the umps pride, and has no real effect on the game that I can see. I can understand why an official has to be protected from physical violence--but hurt feeling because someone forcefully shows disapproval of his action? Not so much.

Now if these disruptions tend to delay the game, then perhaps they should be sanctioned, but otherwise, I don't see why. This is not a massage the referee's ego event, it is a sport and people sometime react emotionally.

As for "everyone is doing it", if such is the case, the rule should probably be changed. It shouldn't be enforced haphazardly, and possibly more strictly against layers the official doesn't like. that can affect the outcome of the game.

As for this particular case, I did not see the match and only saw the clip on the news, but I do think the ump overreacted. Out of animus to Serena, I can't say, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[MajGenl.Meade]

"Hurt feeling"? Give over, mate. It's a rule - abusing the equipment is forbidden. What happens (has happened) is that bits of racquet (whatever) go flying who knows where and player petulance can be dangerous to others. It's a violation of the rules and the umpire does not have discretion to mutter "Oh I am not offended".

The tournament referee’s office fined the former world number one $10,000 for the “verbal abuse” of Ramos, $4,000 for being warned for coaching and $3,000 for smashing her racket.

As you see, USTA ranks the violations according to seriousness. None of them suggest a penalty for massaging anyone's ego. Fact is, a role model showed kids how to behave in a tennis court when she was losing (and it's not the first time - no abuse etc when she's winning, which she does most of the time).

US Open 2009: Serena Williams unrepentant for rant after Kim Clijsters defeat
Serena Williams was unrepentant and unapologetic after an ugly outburst towards a lineswoman sealed her defeat in the semi-finals at the U.S. Open against Kim Clijsters.

And I'm tired of this "I'm just fighting for women" look-a-squirrel nonsense. She is surely doing that in her personal life and in her professional life she demonstrates strength and so on. But she is not "fighting for women" when she's playing a Championship match - she's fighting for herself to win, just like everyone else. There is no way to peg bad manners, poor sportsmanship and self-indulgent histrionics by any woman (or man) as "fighting for a good cause". She lost her temper and fibbed about it.

[Big RR]

What happens (has happened) is that bits of racquet (whatever) go flying who knows where and player petulance can be dangerous to others. It's a violation of the rules and the umpire does not have discretion to mutter "Oh I am not offended".

Do you have any evidence of this ever happening?
eta: I have no problem with having rules to protect spectators and other persons from legitimate danger (like if someone throws their racquet into the stands, but I doubt smashing the racquet on the ground poses and appreciable danger.

[ex-khobar Andy]

BigRR - you can argue whether or not racquet smashing is dangerous to small children, umpires and cute furry animals; but the fact remains that it is against the rules and there is a prescribed penalty. A 'code infringement.' And a second code infringement, which is what it was in this instance, is an automatic point deduction. In the same way that in football (soccer) a second yellow card (i.e., a second misdemeanor) in a game equals a red card (felony) and a sending off, even if the second transgression is relatively mild. You can argue that the rule is wrong and should be changed: but it's there and everyone understands it.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Yes, Big RR - and if your kid starts to smash sports equipment every time he or she is pissed off, I'm sure you say nothing - even if the kid paid for the stuff. How about throwing a helmet to the ground in an NFL game - no problem! How about a soccer player removing his shirt - no danger, no problem. How about an NBA player demonstrating disagreement with the ref by smashing the ball into the floor? No danger = what's all the fuss eh?

I was thinking of incidents where the racquet has been let go as it hit the ground and sped into the crowd - that's happened - or carelessly hurled to the side. Whether or not it is dangerous, it has no part in sport and pro tennis players know it and are punished when it happens. Stop defending the indefensible, please.

[rubato]

Serena was in the process of being whupped and behaved badly. I was rooting for her but those are the facts. maybe women are given different amounts of leeway than men. I don't know. But she screwed up and she was losing anyway.


yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

It would seem that her behaviour isn't as bad as someone drawing a cartoon of her. Because that's racist and sexist, obvs.

[Big RR]

Meade--of course I would correct my kid; that's my job--to teach him/her etiquette and sportsmanship. But this is the pros where there is generally little of both, and it's silly to pretend otherwise. Sure, once in a while someone is disciplined, but for the most part this is tolerated because it puts asses in the seats and pays the salaries of the officials and hangers on.

Whether or not it is dangerous, it has no part in sport and pro tennis players know it and are punished when it happens. Stop defending the indefensible, please.

you were the one who sad it was dangerous, not me.

You can argue that the rule is wrong and should be changed: but it's there and everyone understands it.

No, my argument is not that it is somehow wrong, but I do object to a rule that is generally not enforced and then is used arbitrarily. Again, generally the sport puts up with the antics of pros, especially well known ones, and then once in a while tries to make an exception and sanction one, and then say "see". I don't watch tennis as much as many here, but I have read a number of accounts by sportswriters saying pretty much the same thing.

My second point is that, while coaching from the stands is technically against the rules, it is usually winked at by the officials, so what is the point of keeping the rule? And if that "illegal" coaching hasn't hurt the game, why maintain the rule?

[Scooter]

It would seem that her behaviour isn't as bad as someone drawing a cartoon of her. Because that's racist and sexist, obvs.

When the only racist stereotype missing from that drawing was having her chomping on a piece of watermelon...

[BoSoxGal]

If it’s not racist, why were the referee and opponent player drawn white - though both are in reality people of color?



The cartoonist, by the way, has been called out for racist depictions in prior cartoons as well.

[RayThom]

... The cartoonist, by the way, has been called out for racist depictions in prior cartoons as well.

And the survey says...

The trending stats:
https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet ... 6471354368

[Joe Guy]

[liberty]

I’m done here. I’m tired of the sexism, and the racism, and being called a “whore,” not to mention other nastiness. I’m not typically a tiara tosser, when I walk away I walk away and don’t make a big deal about it. But I’m not going to be silent as to why (nor am I going to get down into the mud with the pigs, either). I think it’s interesting that almost every woman who posted here has stopped, some after very long periods as active members.

Au revoir.

Guin, I am sorry that I said that about you. It is not true and never was. That day, I was angry and depressed and you just got in the cross fire. I feel what I said about the others was justified, but not you. We have disagreed but now I don’t remember you being cruel or disrespectful. Guin, please forgive me I am truly sorry for my attack on you.


And, I love and respect women; my mama did it all herself by herself.

[Joe Guy]

The 'pro-Serena' argument is that Serena should be allowed to get away with breaking the rules because other people get away with it. Can some people not see the problem with that?

[ex-khobar Andy]

I’m done here. I’m tired of the sexism, and the racism, and being called a “whore,” not to mention other nastiness. I’m not typically a tiara tosser, when I walk away I walk away and don’t make a big deal about it. But I’m not going to be silent as to why (nor am I going to get down into the mud with the pigs, either). I think it’s interesting that almost every woman who posted here has stopped, some after very long periods as active members.

Au revoir.

Guin, I am sorry that I said that about you. It is not true and never was. That day, I was angry and depressed and you just got in the cross fire. I feel what I said about the others was justified, but not you. We have disagreed but now I don’t remember you being cruel or disrespectful. Guin, please forgive me I am truly sorry for my attack on you.


And, I love and respect women; my mama did it all herself by herself.

lib you and I disagree about most things. I have even called you 'libturd' once in a while; and I guess you understand why. But that seems to me to be a heartfelt and genuine apology which we don't often see. Much better than the usual formulaic 'If I upset anyone I am sorry" - and I respect you for it. Of course I wasn't the target of your invective so it's relatively easy for me to say that.

[wesw]

ok meadster, just what, in my post about serena was "vile" ?

the truth?

well yeah, the truth is vile sometimes, but it is not slime.

I reported my observations of serena, and venus and Osaka. that is all, sorry if my bluntness offends you.

Englishmen..... (wes skakes his head)

and liberty, good job with that apology

[Gob]

It would seem that her behaviour isn't as bad as someone drawing a cartoon of her. Because that's racist and sexist, obvs.

When the only racist stereotype missing from that drawing was having her chomping on a piece of watermelon...

Bullshit. It's impossible to portray Serena without some "racial stereotyping" as she is a black woman, who looks, colour me fucking surprised, like a black woman.

So does that give her a pass from lampooning when she throws a hissy fit?

Here's a recent (last two days,) cartoon from the left-wing Grauniad newspaper;



Where is the outrage? (Its ok to approve of this image, Sajid Javid is a Tory politician, you can be racist and sexist about them.)

[MajGenl.Meade]

ok meadster, just what, in my post about serena was "vile" ?

I made no reference to your posts about Serena Williams.

I refer to your two posts in response to Guin, vile slime as they were;

Postby wesw » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:00 am
Postby wesw » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:56 am


yrs
Meade