UK really is going down the shitter

[Big RR]

Lo--if no one is offended, then I doubt a business would voluntarily opt to change its name; if some people who would otherwise patronize the business are, then it may make good sense to change it rather than lose the business. IMHO, the government should just stay out of it. All I was saying is I could see how some would be offended by a pub using a name like "The Saracen's Head"; indeed, much English literature uses the term "Saracen" as an offensive term--I've seen terms like "Saracen dog" and "Saracen pig" used many times; it is a far from complementary term for an arab (and possibly other middel east dwellers who were not christian or jew) that dates back probably to the Crusades, which is why I said I can understand how it might be viewed as offensive. If it's not offensive to anyone, then fine, don't change it. I agree the government should keep its nose out of it.

Likewise on Native American team names; if enopugh people are offended, the names will be changed by the team management; if not, then they won't. I don't think it takes too much imagination to see how some could find those names offensive, but if no one does, fine.

[Crackpot]

Chief Wahoo and the Cleveland indians were targeted by native american groups but then again they had their mascot doing some pretty offensive stuff

[Sean]

Lo--if no one is offended, then I doubt a business would voluntarily opt to change its name; if some people who would otherwise patronize the business are, then it may make good sense to change it rather than lose the business. IMHO, the government should just stay out of it. All I was saying is I could see how some would be offended by a pub using a name like "The Saracen's Head"; indeed, much English literature uses the term "Saracen" as an offensive term--I've seen terms like "Saracen dog" and "Saracen pig" used many times; it is a far from complementary term for an arab (and possibly other middel east dwellers who were not christian or jew) that dates back probably to the Crusades, which is why I said I can understand how it might be viewed as offensive. If it's not offensive to anyone, then fine, don't change it. I agree the government should keep its nose out of it.

Likewise on Native American team names; if enopugh people are offended, the names will be changed by the team management; if not, then they won't. I don't think it takes too much imagination to see how some could find those names offensive, but if no one does, fine.

Actually Big RR, the term Saracen dates back much further than the crusades... all the way back to Ptolemy in fact.

Also, if you were to call somebaody a 'Saracen dog' or Saracen pig' then it would be the 'dog' or 'pig' part that were the insult. Just like calling somebosy an 'American pig' really... unless of course you think 'American' is a slur...

The comparison to Chiefs or Redskins doesn't hold up either. It would be a better comparison to say the 'Native American'.

[Gob]

Origin:
bef. 900; ME, OE < ML Saracēnus < LGk Sarakēnós

The name actually originated in the Middle East as a term for a member of any of the nomadic tribes on the Syrian borders of the Roman Empire. So maybe the Arabs were calling themselves derogatory names?

[Lord Jim]

Chief Wahoo and the Cleveland indians were targeted by native american groups but then again they had their mascot doing some pretty offensive stuff

I thought the Cleveland Indians mascot was named "Chief Knockahomer"...

Every few years some gaggle of self righteous publicity seeking jack asses goes after the Redskins...

[Big RR]

Sean and Gob, when I've read the term (and i've never heard it used,e xcept in dentifying a pub), it was usually used in a derogatory manner; I've also seen it used in some pubs along with a logo of a rather fierce looking Arabic head on the sign (the pub in Amersham, e.g., had such a logo, but then changed it to just read "The Saracens' Head"), which also led me to think is was an ethnic slur. If I was incorrect in this conclusion, I regret the error. However, I still stand by my point that I think businesses should remain free to change their names (or not change them) for any reason (or no reason at all) and that the government should keep out of it.

[loCAtek]

You know what they say, 'There's no such thing as bad publicity.'

Case in point: 'The Soup Nazi';

MYFOXNY.COM - One of the zaniest characters in the hit television series 'Seinfeld' was the 'Soup Nazi.' The role was based on the owner of the store 'The Original SoupMan' in Manhattan.

The 'Soup Nazi' had little patience with customers and would rather return their money than answer a question.

Al Yeganeh closed 'The Original SoupMan' in 2003. The flagship location reopened on Tuesday at 259 W. 55th Street.
Check out the clip below from 'Seinfeld' featuring a scene with the 'Soup Nazi':

[Gob]

Sean and Gob, when I've read the term (and i've never heard it used,e xcept in dentifying a pub), it was usually used in a derogatory manner; I've also seen it used in some pubs along with a logo of a rather fierce looking Arabic head on the sign (the pub in Amersham, e.g., had such a logo, but then changed it to just read "The Saracens' Head"), which also led me to think is was an ethnic slur. If I was incorrect in this conclusion, I regret the error. However, I still stand by my point that I think businesses should remain free to change their names (or not change them) for any reason (or no reason at all) and that the government should keep out of it.

I think the government should have no influence, but I also thing the bloody minded PC merchants who kick off these "I'm going to be offended on someone else's behalf" ideas should be taken out and shot.

[Sean]

Sean and Gob, when I've read the term (and i've never heard it used,e xcept in dentifying a pub), it was usually used in a derogatory manner; I've also seen it used in some pubs along with a logo of a rather fierce looking Arabic head on the sign (the pub in Amersham, e.g., had such a logo, but then changed it to just read "The Saracens' Head"), which also led me to think is was an ethnic slur. If I was incorrect in this conclusion, I regret the error. However, I still stand by my point that I think businesses should remain free to change their names (or not change them) for any reason (or no reason at all) and that the government should keep out of it.

Cheers Big RR. It seems that we are in total agreement.