Plan B Forum

Panel shows such as QI and Mock the Week will no longer have all-male line-ups, the BBC's director of TV has said.

"We're not going to have panel shows on any more with no women on them," Danny Cohen told the Observer. "You can't do that. It's not acceptable."

His comments come two months after the BBC Trust was reported to have told executives there was "no excuse" for not having more female panellists.

Mr Cohen also said the BBC needed to get more older women on screen.

"We're getting better," he told the Observer, citing the example of historian Mary Beard. "But we need to get better."

In the past, comedy panel shows like QI, Mock the Week and Have I Got News For You have been criticised for their male-dominated line-ups.

The Observer said all the regular comedians on the most recent series of Mock the Week were men and only five of the 38 guest panellists were women.

Should we settle for less funny shows just to include token women comedians?

I have seen a few women who are as funny as any men. Selections should be made on the basis of talent and ntothing more. Just like everything else in life.

I agree, that's why I find it odd that the current situation needs to change to include more women.

Recently I saw an older QI in which Alan Davis was the only male panelist. I'd venture a guess (and that's all it is) that there are more male comics than female and perhaps the representation on (say) Would I Lie To You? (usually 4 men and 2 women though not always) and QI (often 3 men and 1 woman) is reflective of that.

They probably need to lighten the payroll by 30%.

runs and ducks

Really? In 2014, you're really going to ask "Are women funny?"?????? You're really going to suggest that television entertainment would be "less funny" for including women??????

I've got some more questions: First, do you actually own a sense of humor? And b, Have you seen television? Also, are you just too lazy to google "women comedians"?

There's no need to include "token" women; there are plenty of working female comics who are plenty hilarious. And even acknowledging that not every comedian is to everyone's taste, there are plenty of women stand-ups who are way smarter and way funnier than most all of the men working the circuit.

Ah, Sue, but answer me this, if you are right what possible excuse could there be for the "more lefty than Stalin" BBC to have thus far ignored this wealth of comedic talent? Women can be, and are, funny, talented comedians, there just aren't as many of them as men. That is why this ratio of male to female panel members exists, and adding token women into each show will not address this in any way.

A case in point. I think that 'Miranda' is a wonderfuly funny show and Miranda Hart has created a fresh approach to sitcom - a very funny lady. But on "quiz" shows she's not, as far as I've seen, nearly as quick-witted as Jimmy Carr or Bill Bailey or Phil Jupitus. But I'd rather watch her show than any of theirs. Context, context, context.

OTOH, Jo Brand has appeared on QI more often than any man or woman except for the fixture (Alan Davies) but you have to go a long way then to get to Sandy Toksvig. And the reason Ms. Brand has been on so often is that she kills. The issue is not whether women can do top class stand-up but whether their ad-lib "wit" competes with others.

Gob wrote:Women can be, and are, funny, talented comedians, there just aren't as many of them as men.

First of all, bull and shit. Show me some actual statistics.

Second, even if it were true, so what? For the sake of argument, even assuming there are 2,000 male comedians for every 1,000 female comedians, there aren't more than a dozen or two comedian slots open for these TV shows. BBC is supposedly hiring only the best, and not merely running a statistical pool. Do you mean to tell me there are not 6 to 12 top-tier female comedians available to fill those slots? That's pure bullshit.

You have some actual statistics on these 6-12 top-tier female comedians, Sue? Who are they? (In the UK market of course).

Sue U wrote: BBC is supposedly hiring only the best, and not merely running a statistical pool.

Hence few females

Sue U wrote: Do you mean to tell me there are not 6 to 12 top-tier female comedians available to fill those slots? That's pure bullshit.

I'd be pushed to name four to be honest. Sandi Tosveg, Jo Brand, ermmm, that quite shaggable bird, .... another one... Women in comedy in the UK tend to be more involved in scripted roles, like Jennifer Saunders et a. Stand up, and quick fire comedy don't seem to suit women.

I find this discussion funny
In a non-gender specific way.

I have no idea who's who in the UK, but we have quiz shows and the like here in the U.S. and A. that have some very clever female panelists. (Off the top of my head, the NPR show Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me regularly has Paula Poundstone, Roxanne Roberts, Amy Sedaris, Kyrie O'Connor and Faith Salie in addition to a bunch of equally amusing guys.)

Gob wrote:I'd be pushed to name four to be honest.

Really? Do you know all the comedically gifted women in the UK? Or just the ones the media patriarchy has deigned to show you?

Gob wrote:Women in comedy in the UK tend to be more involved in scripted roles, like Jennifer Saunders et a. Stand up, and quick fire comedy don't seem to suit women.

Again, you have no idea what talent is out there working the clubs and alternative media.

Again, you have no idea what talent is out there working the clubs and alternative media.

you may be right sue, but then most British comedy shows I have scene usually lack women; of course they make up for this by having men in drag, something you rarely see in the US (at least since Flip Wilson).

Sue U wrote:I have no idea who's who in the UK, but we have quiz shows and the like here in the U.S. and A. that have some very clever female panelists. (Off the top of my head, the NPR show Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me regularly has Paula Poundstone, Roxanne Roberts, Amy Sedaris, Kyrie O'Connor and Faith Salie in addition to a bunch of equally amusing guys.)

a) Never heard of them.
b) You are talking about American "comedy" though, not exactly setting a high benchmark there are you?
c)

I'm beginning to think that Sue has me on Foe as well - either that or my arguments are so brilliant that no response is possible. So let's look at the Sue/Gob argumentation:

Sue: First of all, bull and shit. Show me some actual statistics . . . Do you (Gob) mean to tell me there are not 6 to 12 top-tier female comedians available to fill those slots? That's pure bullshit

Sue: I have no idea who's who in the UK

Sue: Again, you (Gob) have no idea what talent is out there working the clubs and alternative media

Sue, who demands actual statistics, has no idea of who female comedians in the UK might be but also seems confident that there must be (statistic) 6 to 12 of them so Gob really shouldn't be making generalisations because he has no idea who female comedians in the UK might be.

Also I produced the statistical information that a woman - Jo Brand - has appeared on QI more often than any other man except for the regular fixture, Alan Davies. While QI sometimes features four male panelists, the show is more like to have 1 lady amongst the three other guests but has gone with ladies for all three.

But since Sue brought up Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me (a show I regularly listen to via podcast), let me first agree that there are indeed some clever ladies on the panel of three. Usually there are two men and one woman - but not always - which is the same kind of ratio as one sees on QI and Would I Lie to You?. For Gob's information, the five clever ladies named by Sue include: one genuine comedian (Paula P), two journalists and two actresses (both of whom have appeared briefly in American sitcoms of alleged humour). Paula Poundstone would do well on QI etc.

It seems to me that the issue is not whether a lady is "as funny" as a gentleman but that the context and format of the entertainment may have more relevance. From an entirely empirical perspective (mine), in general, men are faster off the mark with quickfire humorous sallies than are the humorous Sallies. But those same Sallies are equally as adept at producing a funny story, given the time. Thus WWDTM de-emphasises quick wit (although that emerges of course - usually from the men and Paula P) by affording each person an opportunity (equal time perhaps) to participate.

WWDTM along with many other USA/UK productions certainly has other issues: far too few non-Caucasians (way below population numbers) and far too many homosexuals (way above population numbers). One would almost suspect an agenda - and it's not "keep women out".

Meade

Not much about this thread is funny, especially the above post by our resident junior misogynist. Keep it up MGM, you're approaching Dave levels.

As to the question in the OP, the answer is yes, women are funny. The issue isn't do much whether men or women are funnier, but who is doing the asking and who is doing the answering. I'd bet the responses are not an equal survey of men *and* women.

Oh, and for the record, lots of women are funny, and lots of men that men think are funny, really aren't. Case in point, Jerry Seinfeld.

Guinevere wrote:"...

Oh, and for the record, lots of women are funny, and lots of men that men think are funny, really aren't. Case in point, Jerry Seinfeld.

Very true.

Paula Poundstone is very witty. Ellen DeGeneres is the female "Jerry Seinfeld". Has 1 canned delivery and uses it for everything, no matter how weak the material.

yrs,
rubato

MajGenl.Meade wrote:I'm beginning to think that Sue has me on Foe as well

Good heavens, never! I don't consider anyone a "foe" and even if I did, I think it's more important to know how one's foes think than one's friends, for practical as well as purely academic reasons.

MajGenl.Meade wrote:either that or my arguments are so brilliant that no response is possible.

Let's not get carried away, old boy. But first, some points of agreement:

MajGenl.Meade wrote:Context, context, context.

. . . The issue is not whether women can do top class stand-up but whether their ad-lib "wit" competes with others.

MajGenl.Meade wrote:It seems to me that the issue is not whether a lady is "as funny" as a gentleman but that the context and format of the entertainment may have more relevance.

Okay, that is entirely correct, and perhaps "comedian" is really the wrong way to go about classifying the position. After all, a comedian generally works from a crafted set-up and punchline, whereas these shows at least appear to be more extemporaneous. So humorist, maybe? Snarkmaster? All-around wit?

But here you go completely off the rails:

MajGenl.Meade wrote:From an entirely empirical perspective (mine), in general, men are faster off the mark with quickfire humorous sallies than are the humorous Sallies.

Your "empirical perspective" is based entirely on what has already been pre-packaged and served to you on these shows, complete with their inherent and structural biases. You are perfectly able to see that these productions feature "far too few non-Caucasians," yet you do not attribute their absence to being somehow slower off the mark with humor; why is that?

MajGenl.Meade wrote:Sue, who demands actual statistics, has no idea of who female comedians in the UK might be but also seems confident that there must be (statistic) 6 to 12 of them so Gob really shouldn't be making generalisations because he has no idea who female comedians in the UK might be.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the UK fosters some sort of cultural taboo that prohibits women from being smart and funny in public, although it's hard for me to tell due to the language barrier. Or perhaps the genetic stock is so inferior that 63 million Brits cannot produce a dozen witty women between them. We here in the States are truly blessed.

Guinevere wrote:Oh, and for the record, lots of women are funny, and lots of men that men think are funny, really aren't. Case in point, Jerry Seinfeld.

I would have gone with Dane Cook, but tomato, tomahto.