Plan B Forum

My first reaction to that was...

"Oh that's great! That means it's going to cost a lot less money when we go out to dinner....

"No steak for you, and no crab legs, and certainly none of those steamed mussels in garlic butter that you love so much...(Tati has loved steamed mussels in garlic butter since she was three years old... many times when we've gone out, instead of getting an entree, she'd get three orders of steamed mussels...)

"All you get is a salad and maybe a side order of broccoli...

"Just who is it that gave you these Bolshie notions in the first place? (My daughter is very into history; she actually knows what "Bolshie" means... )

"Was it Ed? (her boyfriend) he's had no problem when we've had a barbecue...I don't think he's a vegetarian..."

And then she put me in my place...

"No, it's not about anybody else. It's just something I want to do; I've been reading a lot about it, and I think that being a vegetarian is healthier..."

and I said, "well please show me what you've been reading, because I can show you a lot scientific data that shows that a vegetarian diet does not make you healthier...

"Sweetheart, you are skinny, and athletic and active, and that has a lot more to do with your being healthy, then whether or not you eat a cheese burger... "

And then she hit me with the ultimate teenage girl trump card:

"Could you just please respect my wishes..."

(Oh no, not the "please respect my wishes" thing... .)

I was really hoping she wouldn't play that card....

There's not much that the father of a teenage girl can do when their daughter pulls the "please respect my wishes" card out of the deck...

Good for her she just reduced her carbon footprint by a bunch!

Vegetarians live five years longer on average.

Five miserable bacon-free years.

I'll take the bacon over 5 more years of dementia.

Vegetarianism has been shown to be healthier by a lot of studies. The longest lived group in the USA are Seventh Day Adventists most of whom are vegetarian and the remainder eat less meat than the avg. person. Their rates of colon cancer are a fraction of the general population. The longest lived groups in the world are Okinawans, Japanese, and SDA members. Okinawans and Japanese eat almost no beef (too land intensive) and little meat other than seafood .

You do have to know more about nutrition and make sure you get enough vitamin d and calcium. The latter is critical for a teenage girl; calcium intake in the teens helps prevent osteoporosis later in life, the deficit cannot be made up later on ( for unknown reasons). There are other things to know as well.

Yrs
Rubato

Gob wrote:Vegetarians live five years longer on average.

Five miserable bacon-free years.

I've has probably 25 bacon-free years so far...it's no loss. (No, I really DON'T like bacon.)

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.
Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.
.....Gen 1: 26-31, NKJV

So there you have it.  Green plants are not food; they're what food eats.

-"BB"-

The different degrees of vegetarian ,give you a lot of latitude .Due to my background and up bringing ,pure veggies will not work for me(I have tried it ) and the bitch of the matter is ,I despise having to consume animals ,if I dont consume some meat ,I can hardly work.
What I am hoping for is cultured meat ,soy doesnt do it for me either ,they kept me very sick in the big house with those infinite varieties of soy sausages,diary products forget about that ,my system will not digest cheese or milk ,now lactaid wont even help .I only use bacon infrequently mostly for flavor and a medium to fry eggs in .

Bicycle Bill wrote:

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.
Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.
.....Gen 1: 26-31, NKJV

So there you have it.  Green plants are not food; they're what food eats.

-"BB"-

Reading comprehension, much? In this passage, God addresses humans and declares (a) they have dominion over the animals and (b) the humans are to eat the produce of herbs that yield seeds and trees that yield fruit. Awful diet that.

But contrary to the remark that "they are what food eats", herbs that yield seeds and trees that yield fruit (i.e. food) are to go around eating green herbs. Nor (since at this point in the story there was no death) are humans authorized or enjoined to eat animals. That possibility only exists after the fall.

The symbolism of the story is not to do with diet but the choices of humanity in regard to living in relationship with God and the world. What humans should care for becomes, by their failure, subject to abuse and decay. And we note that God is the one who used at least one animal to provide Adam and Eve with skins for clothing. Did the fall cause an animal or two to die of "natural" causes or did God slaughter the first one or two because the paradigm had so shifted that the conditions of man's life on earth had to be adjusted?

MajGenl.Meade wrote:And we note that God is the one who used at least one animal to provide Adam and Eve with skins for clothing. Did the fall cause an animal or two to die of "natural" causes or did God slaughter the first one or two because the paradigm had so shifted that the conditions of man's life on earth had to be adjusted?

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. The "original" (ha ha) text reads "כָּתְנ֥וֹת ע֖וֹר", which also translates as "covering/tunic/shirt/clothing/etc. for the skin." Talmudic scholars also interpreted the phrase to mean "derived from the skin" (i.e., wool). But in either case, it did not require YHWH Elohim to murder an innocent animal solely because humans acted like, well, humans.

Still more alternatively, who cares? This is folkloric mythology that does not require factual/historical accuracy because where the clothing came from has nothing to do with the point of the story. I suspect you're missing the message if you read the story and your take-away is, "Hmm, what did their outfits look like?"

Sue U wrote: I suspect you're missing the message if you read the story and your take-away is, "Hmm, what did their outfits look like?"

And I wrote: The symbolism of the story is not to do with diet but the choices of humanity in regard to living in relationship with God and the world

Guess I should have written, "...diet or outfits..."

rubato wrote:. The longest lived groups in the world are Okinawans,( And ) Japanese,

Yrs
Rubato

That might be true, but if you go to Okinawa you will see few aboriginal people of Okinawa. They are easy to discern from the Japanese; they are somewhat darker than the Japanese. If it is not a lack good protein that is causing their slow disappearance then what is it?

Ninja attacks?

Vegetarian: An ancient neanderthal word meaning can't hunt.

MGMcAnick wrote:Vegetarian: An ancient neanderthal word meaning can't hunt.

Yea he not much at hunting mammoth ,but those wild carrots never hear him.

Big RR wrote:Ninja attacks?

Hear is a hint: copulation Of course WWII didn’t help either.

As you said LJ, cheaper dining out, more meat for you. A win-win if you ask me.
Only problem I see is who is doing the grocery shopping?
From what I have read from you, she is not a stupid girl (young lady) so she most likely she is going in with eyes wide open and knowledge.
Just sit back and watch.
ETA
And enjoy those extra spare ribs you now have.

So, your daughter is a vegan.

BFD.

When my younger daughter was 16, she had a picture of Charles Manson in her room.

(The infamous Life Magazine cover).

Didn't freak me out in the slightest.

Didn't freak me out in the slightest.

Well of course not...

You're the one who gave it to her...