Plan B Forum

In an MMA¹ bout on Saturday (7/16), an English kickboxer, karateka, and welterweight mixed martial artist by the name of Michael "Venom" Page defeated his opponent, Brazilian mixed martial artist Evangelista "Cyborg" Santos after he delivered something called a "flying knee kick", a technique found in Muay Thai fighting.  This was the result:



...and the X-ray/CRT view:



Yeah, that's right.  The force of this knee kick shattered the guy's cranium like it had been hit with a hammer.  In fact, a former EMT who now works as a corner man for these fights was quoted as saying that he had only seen an injury like that in a severe car crash.

The world of sports is rightly making a great deal of head injuries — concussions and their cumulative effects, mostly — in contact sports like football, where the players wear helmets which are designed (and redesigned, and improved) to better protect the head.  So why is a sport like Mixed Martial Arts or its sibling, Ultimate Fighting, allowed to continue?  Or do we need to wait until someone to deliver a blow to the skull that results in death instead of such a graphic and gruesome injury before someone will stand up and say that maybe this particular version of human cock-fighting wasn't such a good idea after all?
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¹ — (Mixed Martial Arts; a style of fighting where just about anything but strikes to the groin and eye-gouging is allowed, including pummeling a guy when he's been knocked to the ground and is defenseless)

-"BB"-

I've never watched more than a brief commercial promo for it, but I've just assumed that UFC and MMA was faked, just like pro wrestling...

If not, it seems to me there'd be a helluvalot more serious injuries like this, given what they "seem" to be doing...

It's real, and profitable -- UFC just sold for $4 billion. MMA has moved in to take over a big piece of the market from boxing, which has just kept shooting itself in the foot. That said, it has a limited appeal and has likely captured most of the viewership it will get, but it can be popular/profitable at that number. I think the main demographics are among men under 30 who have decent incomes. Count me out on thinking this sport is a good idea, it does seem way too violent, but I've not watched any beyond the occasional clip shown on a highlight show.

It's real and should be banned

There were many who said all prize fighting should be banned after the fighting death of Benny Paret in 1962. Guess what. It hasn't happened yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Paret

I can remember watching the Saturday night fights on TV, although I do not remember that particular fight. Mrs Mc recalls it clearly. Her dad got up and turned off the TV. They only got one channel before the days of cable. They never watched the fights again.

With a frontal lobe injury like that, Evangelista "Cyborg" Santos may find that his personality has changed to the point that he'll not want to fight anymore.

Bread and circuses, they'll not be banned.

With a frontal lobe injury like that, Evangelista "Cyborg" Santos may find that his personality has changed to the point that he'll not want to fight anymore.

You mean it could raise his IQ?

Kinda like the Circus Maximus ? Its rather sickening as I used to tell my cellie ,dont watch the kids fighting ,its not really entertainment.Probably they at least ought to do away with anything that protects the hands in an effort to lessen concussion type injuries,I know that is not applicable here ,but this whole business sucks .America with all its free time and easy living loves blood and respect for the other human being is going out the window.I read a post on Quora about this Guy finding a site on how to butcher and prepare other human beings(with young woman being preferred ) is this fucking sick ,disgusting or what ? He said it went through all the steps ,from acquisition,ad nauseum .These sicko bastards need to be in jail .

Boxing, UFC and MMA all exploit the participants and should all be banned.

yrs,
rubato

American football, too.

Utter nonsense. You cannot emasculate sport just to satisfy some soft lefties.

It's not about placating soft lefties. Have you bothered to educate yourself about CTE? It's devastating. There are people quitting football over it. There are many American mothers refusing to allow their sons to play football. The NFL is paying out multimillions for hiding what they knew about CTE and refusing to help retired NFL players who were losing their minds at 45, 50, 55 years of age. Hey Gob, why don't you go bang your head repeatedly - like 50-60,000 times in your career at velocities for which the human body wasn't built - and then we'll talk, okay? If you're not a drooling mess by then.

eta: More of a drooling mess than you already are, I meant.

I stand by my original statement, you;'ve done nothing but confirm it!

If you think the fans' right to watch violent sports trumps the players' rights to maintain sanity and function into retirement, then yes, we will have to agree to disagree and I think you're an idiot - which necessarily means that your opinion of me is utterly without merit in my mind.

The clear issue is "do the participants understand the nature and severity of the risks they are taking on". If they do not then it is exploitation and must be prohibited.

Another way to phrase it is "is this a risk that a reasonable person would accept with full knowledge of the consequences". The high probability of permanent mental damage is so great that it seems unlikely a a reasonable person would accept it. And if that is the case it is exploitation.


yrs,
rubato

rubato wrote:The clear issue is "do the participants understand the nature and severity of the risks they are taking on". If they do not then it is exploitation and must be prohibited.

Another way to phrase it is "is this a risk that a reasonable person would accept with full knowledge of the consequences". The high probability of permanent mental damage is so great that it seems unlikely a a reasonable person would accept it. And if that is the case it is exploitation.


yrs,
rubato

This is especially true at the non-professional level (college and even more especially high school students). As for the NFL, I'd be sad to see them shut down...I would hope that some combination of new rules and better protective gear could save the sport.

But the continued existence of UFC/MMA and professional boxing is just inexcusable. (For proof, all you have to do is watch any interview with Muhammad Ali early in his career and then any interview with him after he retired.)

"is this a risk that a reasonable person would accept with full knowledge of the consequences".

Plenty will say yes.
That doesn't mean they are not being "reasonable".
Pick any dangerous profession (military, catching crabs, coal mining....) and the same can be said.

Have you bothered to educate yourself about CTE? It's devastating. There are people quitting football over it.

And there are plenty willing to play anyway (more than those quitting over it).
It's risk vs rewards.

There will always be people willing to take the risk for the reward. Or even only the "hope" of the reward, as most do not get the payoff.

ETA
and some just like the "game" regardless of what it may do to them.

Going back to the pictures at the top of this thread. What is the imagary technology for these pictures? I am particularly wondering about the image with all the cracked bones, and what is going on with the eyes in that picture?

snailgate

Burning Petard wrote:Going back to the pictures at the top of this thread. What is the imagary technology for these pictures? I am particularly wondering about the image with all the cracked bones, and what is going on with the eyes in that picture?

snailgate

I'll leave that answer to someone with more medical background than I have.  I believe, though, that this is an image created through a process known as "X-ray computed tomography"; more commonly referred to as a CT scan.  The affected area is passed through a circular opening which takes numerous X-ray images; these images are then digitally processed to produce a 3-D image of remarkable clarity and detail.  I underwent one myself ten years ago, back in 2006, when I shattered the head of my left humerus and the orthopedist needed a detailed image of the damage done before going in to surgically reconstruct it.

-"BB"-

rubato wrote:The clear issue is "do the participants understand the nature and severity of the risks they are taking on". If they do not then it is exploitation and must be prohibited.

Another way to phrase it is "is this a risk that a reasonable person would accept with full knowledge of the consequences". The high probability of permanent mental damage is so great that it seems unlikely a a reasonable person would accept it. And if that is the case it is exploitation.


yrs,
rubato

Following that to its logical conclusion, you must support banning motocross, as well as motorcycle racing.