I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

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datsunaholic
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I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by datsunaholic »

It is one of the least discussed subjects in the world. Oh, there are countless research papers, articles, books, and websites devoted to sex, but when it comes to one on one discussion, that almost never happens. I'm not talking about "bros" comparing their last conquests; that's not a discussion, that's bragging.

The subject is one of the great taboos - people are more likely to discuss their bowel movements rather than sex. I do realize that a lot of that is a case of keeping one's private life private, but the entire subject seems to be unapproachable. Too uncomfortable to bring up. I'd never have this conversation face to face. But with internet acquaintances, most of whom I've never met in person? Why not.

A little background. I am (as of August 2018) 44 years old. I am also celibate- and have been my entire life. Not by choice so much as circumstance. I didn't want to be, but I have the personality of a lamp post. In the 30 or so years since I reached the milestone of sexual maturity I've had a grand total of 0.5 opportunities. If you use the "baseball" analogy, not only have I never reached first base, I've never been to the plate. If I even made it off the bench and onto the on-deck circle I'd be surprised. Part of that is because I have never had that desire for children. The urge to reproduce has never been there. That doesn't mean the urge to copulate hasn't been there. If the old wives tales were true, I would have been shaving the palms of my hands without the benefit of sight before I hit 20. And time and age hasn't reduced that urge. Even SSRI medication that lists dysfunction and reduced sex drive as common side effects, hasn't. Drive alone doesn't do it, though. Since I don't want children there's been no impetus for marriage, and with no real need for marriage has been the lack of a desire to date. I've never wanted to lead a woman on- not that I've ever had to worry about it. Not only have I never had sex, I've never been on a date. Which has left me with a quandary: the desire is there, but not the desire for a relationship. Instead of building a relationship of mutual affection that may turn intimate, I'd rather have a "Friend with benefits" that could possibly become more exclusive. And that's a problem.

I don't "play the game". I have absolutely no social skills in the area of relationships. I don't drink, so I don't go to bars where I could possibly meet someone for a hookup. And I really don't want a "hookup" in the first place. I'd rather be friends first. In any case, my social outings are extremely limited, and what ones I do attend, aren't that kind of environment. Usually the people I meet are already in quite committed relationships- married, or might as well be. Or they consist of a lot of guys like me, unattached and with no prospects. It doesn't help that when it comes to attractiveness, I'm not. But when it comes to what I find attractive, I'm quite shallow. Looks go a long way. And I do have some single, attractive female friends, WAY out of my league, whom I don't have a chance in hell with. Some have even preemptively told me they are not interested. I didn't get shot down- I got blown up while still in the hangar.

It's one thing to think a friend is attractive, but it's quite another to see that friend and wonder what it would be like to be face first between her legs spelling out the alphabet... in cursive. And yes, I think those things. I don't want to think those things. It makes me feel like an ass, that I've turned those people into nothing more than living sex dolls in my head. When some of them post rather racy, PG-13 pictures to their social media (and yes, these friends range in age from their 20s to their mid 40s) I look. And want more. I feel sick inside, but I still want more. But much like I could never ask them out, I could never ask them for more. Because I feel it's be revealing my own, selfish, shallow desire rather than respecting them for the people they are. It's a fear of rejection, awkwardness, or revealing a side of me that I'd rather they not see. Even if they already know.

Which leads to questions. Is my sexual drive that abnormal, in that I still have desire even in middle age when my experience level is zero? Why am I OK with the idea of casual sex, yet can't get over the hurdle that I'd rather have a friend as a partner rather than a stranger? Why am I attracted to friends?
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by Burning Petard »

I feel all these other answers posted here since this thread started indicates just how complex this question is. I have no answer. I can say I married at age 28 and a year before my marriage I could fit your self description very snugly. I have no idea what changed and led me to propose marriage to a woman I had known vaguely for ten years, had associated with in sort of 'group dates' for about two years, had been hanging around in the 24 hour restaurant I knew she hit after getting off work late at night for about a year, and finally asked out on two dates. Once to go to a play at UMKC and once to have dinner at a very traditional old restaurant in Kansas City. Particularly it is a puzzle why she said yes.

The world of close personal relationships is baffling to me on many levels. On the tv game show 'Family Feud ' there was a recent question: We asked 100 women this question--You would never date a man who would not wear. . . ? The top answer was underwear. But in there was also-- A Condom! I cannot imagine the circumstances or subculture where that information would be shared even before the first date could be turned down.

So Datsun, I thank you for posting here. You surprised me with the announcement of your age. I just assumed since you have been posting here and in its prior versions, that you were much older. And thank you for the trust in this virtual community your post indicates. I hope others can be more helpful.

snailgate

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BoSoxGal
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by BoSoxGal »

Datsun, given your desire for sexual connection and not to have a romantic relationship, I’d say it’s time to find yourself a nice sex worker. It’s the world oldest profession for a reason.

I don’t in any way mean this suggestion as an insult to you, or to sex workers.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by Big RR »

I agree; it's getting exactly what you want, sex without all the "extras". And it is something that is done once the transaction is done. I'm sure you can find them anywhere, or you can go to Nevada where it's legal and regulated (ditto for Amsterdam if you want to go abroad). It's worth a sht.

As for your sex drive being "abnormal", that is an emotionally charged word. While the way you describe it makes me think it is somewhat lower than other middle aged men, deviation from a mean is hardly abnormal.

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I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by RayThom »

Dats -- I admire your openness regarding this vexing and haunting mental health issue. However, and if you read between the lines, it is you, and you alone, who has created the problem. But you know that.

One of our basic human social needs is the need for love and belonging, and that includes family, friendship, and sexual intimacy. So, obviously, you are not alone in your needs but you're stuck in a trap of your own making.

Without going too far into the "whys and wherefores" I'm adding a link that may, in fact, help you understand your struggles. I feel there's light at the end of the tunnel but to see it, it requires some forward movement and internal dialogue on your part.

I hope you find your inner peace.

Sexual Surrogates Help Many Who Suffer Alone
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ffer-alone
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datsunaholic
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by datsunaholic »

BoSoxGal wrote:Datsun, given your desire for sexual connection and not to have a romantic relationship, I’d say it’s time to find yourself a nice sex worker. It’s the world oldest profession for a reason.

I don’t in any way mean this suggestion as an insult to you, or to sex workers.
As a person who damn near had a panic attack trying to find a new barber, and has to go through a calming ritual just to make a phone call, I can't see myself going that route. I've never even been in a strip club. I don't know if it's some moral hangup, because I'm too cheap, or something else. So going into a Nevada brothel? Too expensive. Finding someone local? That's an unbelievably scary thought.

It's also illegal.

I'm also afraid of becoming a sex addict. I've already collected more porn than anyone could look at in a lifetime. I was collecting skin mags before I was even old enough to buy them, I saw my first porn video when I was 15 or 16 (found it buried in the back of my Dad's desk), and when the internet came along... I no longer had to deal with the anxiety of buying a magazine at the local newsstand and dealing with the judgement of the cashiers at the bookstore. It's quite likely reached an addiction stage. Definitely hoarding. My former counselor said it's a surrogate for actual intimacy.

Ray, I'm perfectly aware that it's my own fault. I don't blame anyone else, or society. I'm just not sure what it was that I did to myself to make me this way- it's probably a combination of all the little problems I have built up into one big ball of anxiety. As I've been told numerous times, I have to want to change to make change happen. It's not enough to say I want change- I actually have to do something. Once I figure that one out...
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by Bicycle Bill »

I could be Datsun's older, long-lost brother, although if I had to lay the blame anywhere it would be split between my Catholic education and the reinforcement of the same by my parents.  I spent 1959 to 1970 — K thru 10th grade — attending Catholic schools, staffed (for the most part) by clones of 'The Penguin' from the Blues Brothers movie, and that much b⃥r⃥a⃥i⃥n⃥w⃥a⃥s⃥h⃥i⃥n⃥g⃥ indoctrination is nigh unto impossible to overcome.....and my parents' dismissal of the matter as just being a "late bloomer; sooner or later you'll hit your stride" didn't help, not even a little bit.

And now, at damn near 64, I'm afraid the parade has passed me by, and all that's left is the guy scooping up after the elephants.  Maybe that's why, despite it being ten years since I last saw or spoke with her, I still have a place in my heart for Katie Barefoot.  I really, truly thought/hoped that our acquaintanceship would develop into something.
BoSoxGal wrote:Datsun, given your desire for sexual connection and not to have a romantic relationship, I’d say it’s time to find yourself a nice sex worker. It’s the world oldest profession for a reason.
BSG, I did that once when I was still in my early 40s.  Ended up buying a beer and a souvenir hat — nothing else.  I left with the same hard-on I went in with.  See above for the reason(s).
datsunaholic wrote:Ray, I'm perfectly aware that it's my own fault. I don't blame anyone else, or society. I'm just not sure what it was that I did to myself to make me this way- it's probably a combination of all the little problems I have built up into one big ball of anxiety. As I've been told numerous times, I have to want to change to make change happen. It's not enough to say I want change- I actually have to do something. Once I figure that one out...
Once you do figure it out, Dats, PM me and let another fence-sitter from the Sexual Revolution in on the secret.
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by BoSoxGal »

Here you are my friend - perfectly legal:

http://glamourgirlsseattle.com/


What happens beyond the initial entertainment contract is nobody’s business but yours. ;)


eta: Sex can be really glorious, really awkward, really funny, really boring - sometimes all of those in the same encounter! Don’t you dare die a virgin; make it your mission to get laid THIS YEAR!
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by Big RR »

Interesting Datsun and BB; I have a friend who is somewhat like the both of you, but he found a way around it by separating emotional from physical intimacy, and keeping both at arm's length. He has hooked up many times on the internet, and says he has found most of the women there want only one or the other--rarely both. This guy has had more than his share of one night stands, even some repeats, but they were just that and both parties understood. On the other hand he has had a couple of close relationships with women that have never progressed to the physical level; indeed, he has one woman he has known for 6-7 years--they frequently exchange messages and go on "dates" several times a year, but have never gone very far physically (he says he wouldn't push it because he values her friendship, and I think she feels the same way (and before anyone suggests it, she is not after his money as he doesn't have all that much, and she is as apt to pay as he is) Indeed, I think his upbringing (also RC) developed in him some sort of Madonna complex (all women are saints or whores and you interact with each differently), but he has worked through it to a way that apparently works for him.

I only raise this because I do think you have to try and work through this--either alone or with some professional help, and find your own resolution. My friend's resolution is unlikely to be your own, but I do think it shows that not everyone has to be the same way, and we have to do the best with the hand we're dealt. I have known this guy for years and he has had plenty of chances for having a more conventional relationship with a woman he cared for (even some he didn't recognize) but such was not to be for him; he made his peace with who and what he was and adjusted his behavior to deal with it.

I would hope you can do the same.

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I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread

Post by RayThom »

datsunaholic wrote:... Ray, I'm perfectly aware that it's my own fault. I don't blame anyone else, or society. I'm just not sure what it was that I did to myself to make me this way-(well, Boohoo!) it's probably a combination of all the little problems I have built up into one big ball of anxiety.(Do you think?) As I've been told numerous times, I have to want to change to make change happen.(And that's what you'll continue to hear if you don't.) It's not enough to say I want change- I actually have to do something. Once I figure that one out... (DUH!!!)
After all these years you must realize that you don't have the wherewithal to take the necessary steps to change all by yourself. This is a mindset rebuilding project that requires face-to-face, personal instruction. And you'll NEVER, NEVER, EVER build anything "serviceable" if you don't have someone to show you the proper way to use a simple "hammer."

Maybe your hammer in your tool kit is a lot smaller than you see on all the instructional videos you view nightly on the internet. Right off the bat you feel inadequate by comparison so why bother, right? You're looking for some 'tea and sympathy' and not that negative feedback your filtering through the wrong lens. Well, just remember,"It ain't the tool -- it's the mechanic."

As I see it there is no sense crying about your shortcomings in these forums anymore. Yes, it's great that you can form your words and thoughts to coherently -- and I admire that -- but everyone you know and trust in here is a faceless keyboard user with limited, or no power, to help you on a personal, caring, real, basis. You need something more tactile, a real person, who will give you proper feedback through verbal and non-verbal expression. And that ain't gonna' happen here, bro'.

So, to this I say... SHIT, OR GET OFF THE POT! Your inadequacies are nothing I (we) can help you with so stop with the pity party. I do believe that if not for YOU, you could be a great, close, friend to the right person. I truly believe that. However, and as for me -- I am done with all your nonsensical insecurities. Please get some help.

I wish you well... you deserve a lot more. Peace be with you.

Your understanding "cyber friend," Ray
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by Long Run »

I agree with BigRR on the internet, in fact meeting people you would not otherwise ever come into contact with might be the highest best use of this medium. I would add that maybe a better strategy is joining groups of other adults doing stuff you like to do (e.g., meetup.com), you will have a chance to make friends outside your limited orbit. Whether something more than friendship comes from that, you still win. And, if you spend more time with real world people, including real world women, you may find their realness to be as attractive or more attractive than the fantasy version.

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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by MGMcAnick »

One of my nephews was never particularly interested in the ladies until he was well out of college with a master's in some kind of ecological studies. Then he joined one of those online perfect mate finders. He's 35, nearly bald, a bit overweight, and has a marked speech impediment. His profile lined him up with only three ladies that seemed to mesh within 500 miles. (His limit) He had to go about 400 to find the love of his life, a pediatrician. Now married eight years with two little boys, I don't think they could be happier.

My suggestion, join one of your choice, be honest in your profile, and see what happens. There is bound to be someone out there that will work for you too.
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by Joe Guy »

For practice, go to Amazon and invest in one of these for the low low price of $799.00.

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I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread

Post by RayThom »

Joe Guy wrote:For practice, go to Amazon and invest in one of these for the low low price of $799.00[/url].
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... SY679_.jpg
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread

Post by datsunaholic »

RayThom wrote: So, to this I say... SHIT, OR GET OFF THE POT! Your inadequacies are nothing I (we) can help you with so stop with the pity party. I do believe that if not for YOU, you could be a great, close, friend to the right person. I truly believe that. However, and as for me -- I am done with all your nonsensical insecurities. Please get some help.
Oh, fuck off, Ray. I'm not looking for pity. I'm looking for advice of people with a hell of a lot more life/relationship experience than I have. I ask the questions here BECAUSE you're a faceless group of individuals that I will likely never meet (never mind that I have, in fact, met a couple folks here from back in the Car Talk days). I don't have to worry about people here sniggering behind my back because I'm a 44 year old virgin. Although I suppose a few of my friends already figured that part out. Maybe the ones that keep telling me I need to get laid.

Who else do I talk to? My siblings? Not a subject I want to broach with them. Nor with my Mom. Can't ask my Dad- he died 7 years ago. Pouring that kind of emotional output on my few friends is a mess. Here, you can choose to read. You're not trapped in a 1-on-1 conversation that is going to be uncomfortable. You can stop reading and bail out at any time. Or take perverse pleasure in my struggle.

"Nonsensical Insecurities"? Obviously you've never had debilitating anxiety. You have no idea what its like. You decide you want to do something, you just do it. Maybe you poured liquid courage down your throat, maybe you just didn't care what the world thought. That's not me. I have rarely done ANYTHING in my life unless I was convinced I could do it the first try.

This wasn't meant to be a discussion about my struggles with depression and anxiety. They do relate to the subject, of course.

"Get help". From where? I tried counseling. Unfortunately it was State-funded mental health counseling that is woefully underfunded and is geared towards substance abuse. Since I have no chemical addictions, the counselors decided to latch onto my lack of a job as the source and my self-described porn addiction as a symptom. The first counselor used routine, mental exercises, and structure. Unfortunately I guess I treated those as "assignments" because once I wasn't given any, I quit doing them. The second counselor was a 12-stepper who insisted on using faith as a basis. Since I am NOT religious, and I take nothing on faith (I need proof) it was a horrible fit. I felt I got nowhere with him, and in any case my State benefits ran out because I'd gotten a part-time job and that was that.

In any case, every counselor I've talked to say I need to get my personal life in order before I could even conceive of having a relationship. But in reality I've never even tried to have one.

As I said before, I keep being told that the only one that can help me is me. Hell, even you said that once, Ray. I don't know where to help me. I'm NOT going to pull up roots and move far, far away to start over. That solves nothing- running away at best. But I have no idea where to start, nor any idea where to turn for help. My doctors have repeatedly said psychiatry is not the answer (and I can't afford it anyway).
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by Gob »

What's the difference between an egg, a drum, and a wank?

You can beat an egg and a drum, but...
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by datsunaholic »

Oh, and if I wanted pity... in my original post I said I had a total of 0.5 opportunities. One of the women on my ship when I was in the Navy offered my a blow job on my birthday if I didn't get laid before then.

I didn't ask.

I'm not above pity sex, but I'm also not gonna ask any of my female friends for it. Nor would I ever ask any of my female friends to "send nudes". Doesn't mean I don't want to, but it sets off all sorts of morality alarms, along with being borderline or full blown harassment if they aren't into that sort of thing.

My problem I suppose is I'm hung up on the idea of "Friends First". Say there's a woman I like. A lot. We become friends. It's happened. I don't know how or why, but it has. Make this a single, attractive woman. Now I might wonder if there's more to be had than just friends. But I don't want to screw up the friendship by trying to take it to the next level unless I know she is receptive to that. If SHE doesn't want that but I asked, it would make the friendship awkward because now she'd know I wanted more and she has rejected that. Or worse- we actually DO get together, hook up, then figure out we aren't a good match and break up. Now not only have I lost the relationship, I lost the friend too. And I don't want that, so I have friendzoned myself.
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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by Burning Petard »

I must say this thread has been educational. I clicked on the Amazon link above and I found several different 'models' but the description of one caught my attention: Include: sex dole, hair, simple clothes, nail

Just how does one use the nail?

snailgate

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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by Big RR »

maybe nail polish?

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Re: I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

datsun - you're obviously an intelligent guy who can put together a series of thoughts and pull them into intelligible and well crafted sentences. You say you aren't a looker - and let's face it, most of us (I should really just speak for myself) are not. Luckily for me, in the eyes of most people who are worth knowing, looks are in around eighth place when it comes to desirable characteristics in their partners. Like carbon paper in an office, it used to matter more than it does now. (I should cancel that sentence because at 44 you probably have no idea what carbon paper is.)

I once, on another board that many of you are familiar with, shared a story about a college friend of mine who had way more than his share of success with the ladies. (HIs name was Grady which may ring some bells with some of you.) I often wondered what it was about him: he certainly was not a classically handsome guy; he was a tad overweight; and he was not a clothes horse. What he was, was interested in people, genuinely so. At one point in my life I got tangled up with a once and future GF of his, who despite my obvious charms, sunny disposition, sexual prowess, high intelligence and obscene wealth dumped me and returned to him when he crooked his little finger in her direction. I once asked her what it was about him. She told me that when she was with him, she felt like the only person in the room. I could relate to this because as a longtime friend and flatmate (room-mate in US English) I knew that: it wasn't of course sexual but if you were in a conversation with him about anything (politics, cars, biochemistry, whatever) he genuinely wanted to know what you thought. It wasn't an act or artificial.

You seem to be interested in what people, at least the anonymous denizens of this board, think. You have the balls to out yourself as a relatively elderly virgin. There's a lot of it about. I am certain that there is an equally sincere woman, living not too far from you, who is scared of exposing herself as inexperienced in today's world. She may be terrified of guys because of a prior experience or because of what she sees on TV or the intertubes. You won't get anywhere by pretending to be anything other than what you are (OK you can always have a shave or lose that 15 pounds you've been meaning to get rid of) and you may find that what you actually are is exactly what she wants. Isn't that what eHarmony (et al) was set up to do?

A word on the subject of anxiety. I speak as someone who went through a phase 30 years ago, following an anxiety attack (those things are real BTW - I thought I'd had a stroke) of counseling. The doctor prescribed me Xanax. It cured the anxiety issues but the cure was worse than the disease. It took me three years to get off the stuff; and I am certain that it caused me to come off the road on a snowy Buffalo February morning as a result of which I have permanent pins in my pelvis and my left elbow still gives me pain. Don't ever go that route.

Good luck.

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