I want to talk about sex. A TMI thread.

[liberty]

Well Dats, I didn’t see anything you described about yourself as abnormal. How can you say that you are not normal in terms of looks, normal is the best that most people can do. Can you compare yourself to some well know person that would give us a better idea what you look like? And at any rate, anyone worth having as a friend wouldn’t care away.

I doubt that your looks have anything to do you not having a sex partner. I see some men I consider as homely married to good looking women.
I would suggest two things: Work to conquer your fears and then just play the numbers. If you approach enough women you will hit mark sooner later.

And if a sex doll meets your needs go for it, the hell with what other people think; they don’t live in your skin.

P.S. I would be very distrustful of buying anything that expensive through the mail.

[RayThom]

Buyer beware:
https://lifehacker.com/why-i-dont-recom ... 1733804821

[BoSoxGal]

I’m a bit confused. Are you looking to lose your virginity and experience the range of sexual expression free of the obligations and complications of a romantic relationship, or are you actually really wanting a relationship that allows for some sexual experience?

Be aware that there are legion of people of both sexes on the interwebs complaining daily about the lack of sexual intimacy with their beloved; a relationship is no guarantee whatsoever of access to sex. Some people are great to be around in many ways but simply have no libido, some use sex as a manipulative tool in the context of relationship, and all range in between.

This is why you need to think about and delineate your objectives. You don’t *need* to use an escort service to open the door to sex without commitment, because there are hundreds of people out there looking to just have sex, not involving an exchange of money. Some are in sexless relationships that they don’t wish to disrupt, some are socially awkward or happily solo but desire to experience sex outside of paid transaction. Look at Craigslist or the personals of the alternative papers in Seattle. And yes, use your common sense - you’ve been in the military, you’ve got plenty of that. Meet in a public place and assess the person before jumping in - but a great many of these people ARE legit.

If what you want IS a relationship with all the emotional intimacy (or not) and physical intimacy (or not) and dysfunctions (there will be some, you can be sure - that’s real life), then I concur you should check out eHarmony, Match.com, et al. I know a number of reasonably happy couples who met online and have gone the distance . . . at least thus far.

All the stuff you’re worried about with female friends to whom you become attracted - join the club, you’re very normal. We all suffer those same worries about crossing the friends line into more - I ended up losing a good friend that way in law school, because I spurned his advances out of fear of losing his friendship (I didn’t feel the whole package was there between us sufficient to take the chance) and despite having done so with great tenderness (it’s really not you, it’s me - a legit assertion at the time as I was going through a lot of family stuff and it wasn’t like I was seeing anyone else), his ego ultimately didn’t cope. The thing is, when something like that happens, you learn that your friendship wasn’t that dear which tells you a lot about the likelihood that the person was good longterm partner material, too. If you are accepted and you try the relationship and it doesn’t work out and the person drops you as a friend (absent your having abused or betrayed them in some way), then ditto - you’ve learned that they didn’t really deserve a place in your orbit. This is life and relationships and some people come into and go out of your life that way, to help you on your path to learn and grow - and on their path as well.

Some women out there would be really keen for the opportunity to deflower a middle aged virgin; don’t discount that as a positive in some regards.

And finally, I’ve seen your recent pics on FB, and you are not unfuckable by any means. If you are able to speak relatively equal to your ability to express yourself in writing, if you practice good hygiene and don’t have dragon breath (ask a good friend or your mom to honestly assess that for you - it’s a totally fixable problem having very little to do with oral hygiene and more to do with your gut and oral biome), you CAN get laid.

Whether you can find a committed love relationship that includes sex and is a positive addition to your life is a much bigger question - and Datsun, it’s one that billions of people struggle with, including totally gorgeous people with great social skills. Please quit beating the fuck out of yourself as if you were a freak - you are not!

[ex-khobar Andy]

And for the record I am in total agreement with what liberty said. You too, BSG.

[BoSoxGal]

Here is an interesting article; please don't get hung up on where you fall in the percentage by age of people who are virgins, as there is a good discussion about adult virginity and anxiety and ways to overcome both - including a story of an adult woman virgin who lost hers through the casual encounters page on Craigslist - I'm telling you, I'm full of good advice!

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ss/284412/

[BoSoxGal]

A couple of random thoughts:

Don't expect as a middle aged, averagely attractive man, that you will end up with a hot young blonde chick with big boobies, unless you use the escort services, or suddenly come into big money/fame. While there are certainly random exceptions, I think when we see hot young women with older average guys, there is usually money/power involved. (People can excoriate me for saying this, but I am speaking from almost 50 years of observed life experience. Some women will trade their bodies/affections to a man of power/wealth who they would not otherwise look at twice if he was a regular working stiff; I'm sure there are some men who do exactly the same.)

I think a lot of men in our age range have really ridiculous expectations about which women they will be able to attract on that basic physical level - I don't know if it's a peculiar male ego thing, an inability to come to terms with their transformed middle-aged physical selves, or what - and it leads them to reject perfectly comely ladies in their own age range (who probably offer a lot less drama) and to then wallow in bitter involuntary celibacy, when they could be getting laid and eating some good home cookin' with a nice gal who also might sport a few extra curves and a few gray hairs, just like they do.

I had another good thought but forgot it while typing the above, so I'll come back and edit if/when it comes back to me.




Oh yeah! Now I remember . . . as a general rule, if a gal is really keen on a guy and he's single, she'll usually send out some fairly apparent signals to indicate a willingness to jump in there - whether that be a date or a friends w/benefits thing.

That said, I have missed the signs from guys myself on a number of occasions and later regretted the missed opportunities - because those of us who do experience whatever degree of anxiety or insecurity about intimacy sometimes can't see what's right in front of our faces because it's clouded over by our insecurity. So, if there is someone you like and you're not sure - just put it out there. You won't lose her as a friend if you handle the situation gracefully - which means, just say 'hey, I am so appreciative of your friendship and I also find you attractive and if you have any interest, I'd love to take you out to dinner - but if you don't, I promise that's the last you'll hear of it and we can just keep enjoying this great friendship we share'.

I can tell you from repeated personal experience and the experiences of many girlfriends shared with me over the years, we don't dump guys as our friends because they flatter us by expressing their attraction to us or desire to date us. We dump them as friends when they become creepy stalkers who won't stop asking, or passive-aggressive assholes who engage in negative commentary about the men we do date and have relationships with, etc. Men who can't get past the simple "oh thank you, I'm so very flattered you see me that way, but I really just want to keep us friends.'

Now, I'm not saying that every woman is healthy/mature enough to handle the situation well - so theoretically, you could lose a friend just by asking. But all of life is a calculated crap shoot, and you have to take risks to achieve the best rewards.

eta: One more thing - very often when men and women are friends platonically, the friendship wanes dramatically when one or both become involved in a romantic relationship elsewhere. This is apparently a very common phenomenon, so you should expect this and not take it as a personal affront.

[Joe Guy]

P.S. I would be very distrustful of buying anything that expensive through the mail.

You might be able to get a pre-owned one a lot cheaper on ebay...

[MGMcAnick]

I clicked on the Amazon link above and I found several different 'models'.
snailgate

Be prepared to get all sorts of interesting email.

[datsunaholic]

A couple of random thoughts:

Don't expect as a middle aged, averagely attractive man, that you will end up with a hot young blonde chick with big boobies, unless you use the escort services, or suddenly come into big money/fame.

Oh, like that cute blonde in one of my more recent FB photos? Yes, I am entirely aware that she is way, way out of my league. And not interested. Because if she was, I'd be in a LOT of trouble.

eta: One more thing - very often when men and women are friends platonically, the friendship wanes dramatically when one or both become involved in a romantic relationship elsewhere. This is apparently a very common phenomenon, so you should expect this and not take it as a personal affront.

I've noticed that. Didn't realize it was that common, but it makes sense.


One of the issues I ran across having gotten on social media was that I ran across so many of the women I knew back in High School who are still (or have subsequently become) single. And still VERY attractive. And so, so out of reach. My High School crush, for instance, I tried for 2 years just to meet up for burgers whenever she was in town. But she has fallen into a despair pit (including attempted suicides) and after promising a good dozen times to meet up, finally just said she wants me to remember her for who she was and not who she is now. Along with some pretty hard bites at my life choices. I came to the realization that I don't need the drama, even though I care deeply and wish her well I can't take getting my head bit off every time I don't share her opinions.

A second friend who I reconnected with through mutual FB friendships with the woman above, I've talked a bit with. She is attractive to me in a maybe really unhealthy sense- she is a LOT like my mother. Very independant, with a "I can do this myself" attitude, like she remodeled her own house. She's a widow- her husband, who was her true soulmate, died suddenly at the age of 39, leaving her with a 3-year old who had almost never been apart from her father (he was a stay-at-home dad). One conversation we had was on a similar subject, where she described how after her husband died, her husband's best friend tried to take over where her husband had left off. She had to tell him straight up she wasn't interested in going beyond what friendship was there before. She's someone I'd love to take to a museum, or something, though it would have to be something that her now 10 year old could appreciate. And that's a scary thought, as I'm not a kid person. I also know I could never replace her husband, and she has said she isn't sure she will ever need anyone again. Being that our conversations were always in the context of our mutual friend, it seems to me to be an extremely awkward thing to switch gears to her. Plus I think she could so so much better.

So here's the issue- What I desire is an actual relationship. But I don't have the experience yet to do so, and I don't want to break anyone's heart. I don't want JUST sex, but I do want it. I'm not morally opposed to a simple hookup. I think I can separate emotional and physical intimacy, but not 100% sure on that. If it was as easy as it is made out to be in the movies, I'd probably have hooked up by now. I still remember the cute British sailor girl off the HMS Sheffield I met in Dubai. I paid her all the right compliments and by all indications she was looking for a quick shag with someone not on her ship. But I went off exploring the Gold Souk with my buddies and she got entirely blitzed in the bar to where she had to be carried back to her hotel. She asked my buddies about me the next day, but I was on duty then and stuck on the ship. Talk about a missed connection. It's weird to think back on that one- she smoked like a chimney, and drank 2 Russian merchant sailors under the table. Cussed like a sailor (which I found cute- British swearing was so different). But that's the past, it's gone.

What I need to do is stop limiting myself to the extremely small circle of who I know. It's oppressive. On the other hand, as a boat racer, I also know that trying to fit a relationship in with someone who doesn't understand the boat racing lifestyle tends to blow up spectacularly.

[RayThom]

... Don't expect as a middle aged, averagely attractive man, that you will end up with a hot young blonde chick with big boobies, unless you use the escort services, or suddenly come into big money/fame. While there are certainly random exceptions, I think when we see hot young women with older average guys, there is usually money/power involved...

Isn't that the truth. I always tell my family and friends that I no longer have the type of money to make me handsome enough to score intimate moments with the ladies for whom I lust after. That ship sailed years ago. Now I mostly keep myself involved sharing thoughts, ideas, and feelings, with people who I can relate to, and every once in a while that friendliness will have some mutual benefit.

As the years have passed I have become comfortable with my quasi-celibacy yet savor those moments when things break in my favor. Eventually I'm certain the well will run dry and then I'll just have the memory of those intimate moments -- and I know I'll be all right with that.

As I also tell people who know me "I ain't dead yet" so they understand when they catch me sneaking long glimpses of the female passersby who can still catch my eye and cast their spell on me. Sigh! Ah, yes, visions of "grand-pop sex" -- doin' it with my socks on.

Life is good.

[BoSoxGal]

Datsun, separating sex from intimacy is another one of those things that most normal people struggle with - the movies are fantasy. Frankly I think that people who do it seemingly without a second thought might be the most damaged - but that’s just my opinion. At least for most women - myself and every girlfriend I’ve ever talked about it with, and many of my male friends who have shared their feelings on the subject - sexual intimacy is best in the context of a healthy emotional intimacy, even if it’s not a committed romantic relationship. Like, very good friends with benefits - which can sometimes work well if both people are in the right kind of space. Alternatively, sex without emotional intimacy can end up feeling worse than no sex at all - you’ve heard the adage that being lonely with someone feels lonelier than being lonely alone? That can be very true.

But I don’t mean to suggest that a casual sexual encounter has to feel yucky in some way - sometimes they are just really lovely. I have fond memories of a number of relatively casual hookups in my misspent youth lasting anywhere from one night to several weeks, depending on circumstance. I had a lot of sex in the second 15 years of my life, and I don’t really regret any of it - I loved sex and learned a lot about what made me feel fantastic and how I could make my male partner feel fantastic and I was glad not to be frigid in any way. Although I admit to struggling at times in my own head with the puritanical narrative I’d grown up with, I eventually got to the point - as with my agnostic atheism in general - that I realized how stupid all the judgmental shit is because we are animals with the urge to copulate and privileged to have the ability to do it without the consequences of offspring - why shouldn’t we enjoy that to the fullest?! Sex can be one of the greatest joys of life.

I really recommend the book The Joy of Sex; it’s a classic with beautiful illustrations that I first encountered as a young teenager while babysitting, and from which I learned many lovemaking techniques that proved to be very pleasing to my partners when I began to be sexually active a few years later. It also gave me ideas that helped me to ask for things that made sex more pleasing for me - although admittedly, I wasn’t very good at that kind of asking until I was older and more confident.

Real sex in my experience is a lot more nuanced than porn, most of which is based in rudimentary male fantasy. I’m not totally anti-porn; it’s just that most is not terribly appealing to women, many of whom are open to the concept of watching porn with or without a partner in the mix. I would encourage you to explore more woman-centric porn (if you haven’t already) to develop a more realistic idea of what will really make your eventual sexual experiences successful.

Here’s a resource: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.glamou ... -enjoy/amp

Of these I’ve only visited Make Love Not Porn, and it’s pretty great.

Top hint: sex is best if it’s about giving pleasure as much as if not more than your desire to receive it; ideally you find a like minded partner and you rock each other’s worlds.

And no, size doesn’t matter that much. Some women really like a big dick, but what most women really love is a man who genuinely enjoys and is very good at performing oral sex on his lady. Whatever the boy-centered porn depicts, the great majority of women don’t orgasm from penetration alone, so learning to work the clitoris is key to your lady’s joy!

Here’s the book - buy it used because it’s cheaper and because the newer edition doesn’t include the gorgeous erotic illustrations. https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDe ... D100121503

[Econoline]

Top hint: sex is best if it’s about giving pleasure as much as if not more than your desire to receive it; ideally you find a like minded partner and you rock each other’s worlds.

[datsunaholic]

So much stuff to think about. Interesting to hear the perspective of others. Don't know if it will help, but I thank you for the replies. Even Ray's condescending crap does give me a perspective on how others see me.

[RayThom]

So much stuff to think about... Even Ray's condescending crap does give me a perspective on how others see me.

Condescension -- wha... what? I tend to see it as "slightly" passive/aggressive, tough love. Things that makes one mad are the things that bring about change, once reflected upon.

Regardless, it's understanding the whole gestalt of your dilemma that matters. Myopia affords you very little but a continued mix of both angst and comfort.

Peace.

[Joe Guy]

RayThom was mansplaining.

[RayThom]

RayThom was mansplaining.

Nah, it's more like sexplaining.

[MGMcAnick]

Top hint: sex is best if it’s about giving pleasure as much as if not more than your desire to receive it; ideally you find a like minded partner and you rock each other’s worlds.

Yup, she is right. I think that's part of what cemented my relationship with Mrs Mc after she'd spent 11 years with an uncaring ex-husband.

My ex-wife's idea of foreplay was for me to say "brace yourself". Sex was dirty to her, best left to animals and deviates. Luckily I celebrated my 40th UNniversary this year. Somewhere in the years between wives there was a young lady who explained many of the finer aspects of love making. Unfortunately, after nearly two years of lessons, good sex was about all we had in common. Enter one of my longest term female friends from high school who introduced me to the future Mrs Mc, and pestered me for over a year and a half before I'd go out with her.

That's another good point. Look to friends who have friends. My friend set me up with a lot of losers before she picked me a winner. Or maybe those losers were only used to encourage me to go out with the future Mrs Mc. Hmmmm...

Nice ladies are out there. Luckily I'm no longer looking for one.

[datsunaholic]

I don't have the kind of friends that would try to set me up with anyone. Well, one has threatened for 10 years now to send a couple strippers to my room at our annual crew day out at Lake Chelan but it's an empty threat. He also says I should go after that cute blonde (he didn't succeed with her ) but again that's not gonna happen. Its a running joke, and not a particularly good one. If anyone else ever tried matchmaking I certainly didn't notice. Not since high school. And that too didn't work.

[rubato]

There are a lot of nice women out there looking for someone to love 'em up a little.

Go look. If you feel anxious and uncertain about it just say to yourself "It's an experiment. I'm going to do the experiment and see how it turns out". Think of things you could say or do or invite someone else out to do that will delight them. People like that. Make it a habit to notice other people strengths and successes and complement them on them.

yrs,
rubato

[datsunaholic]

I am pathetic. I went to a metal/hard rock concert last night. All 3 bands were female fronted, so the pit was loaded with women. WAY outnumbered.

A way beyond hot woman bumped into me, apologized, but then said I looked "familiar".

My reply?

"I don't think so. I've got you by maybe 15-20 years".

Her reply was, "That doesn't matter, does it?"

She insisted I looked like someone she knew, but I didn't recognize her in the least. Another woman said maybe I look too "common". I said I hope not, I don't look like anybody. So this other woman says no, you look like you.

And then the first woman mentioned she was a recruiter. And I need a job...

Well, turns out she was married, but her friend who was an 11 on the 1-10 scale was not. I mean, right down to the tattoos. And she was a blast. Way too young, I guess, but she kept being mischievous. Told me they were having fun because they have the most boring jobs in the world. And kept messing with my hat. She said she was OCD and it was crooked. She tried to help me find one the the 2 guitar picks I managed to get hit with. Didn't get either, but what's the chances of getting hit by not one but TWO picks?

But did I get names?

Nope.

I probably am not making much sense. I was enveloped an a few, um, "clouds".