Page 1 of 3
Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:10 am
by Gob
An NHS trust is to use "gender inclusive language" for its maternity services, including terms such as "chestfeeding" and "birthing parent".
Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals Trust is thought to be first in the UK to adopt the language in its internal communications and meetings.
The trust said it recognised "challenges" gender identity can have on pregnancy, birth and feeding.
But a campaigner said it was "trying to control the language of others".
The language changes would not apply when caring for individuals in a one-on-one setting, the trust said.
"Language and documentation should reflect the gender identity of the individual" in these circumstances, it added.
The trust tweeted: "Our approach has been carefully considered to be inclusive of trans and non-binary birthing people without excluding the language of women or motherhood."
A document on the trust's website lists new terms such as "breast/chestfeeding", "mothers and birthing parents" and "father or second biological parent".
Shay Brown, director of campaign group TransActual, said: "It's absolutely wonderful.
"Everyone is worthy of being treated with dignity when they access healthcare services no matter what they are," he said.
Transgender advocate Debbie Hayton expressed concern over the plans.
"Trying to control the language of others does transgender people no favours at all," said Dr Hayton, who describes herself as a transgender campaigner concerned about the "rights of other vulnerable groups".
"We should be living in society, not imposing upon it."
Carolyn Morrice, chief nurse at the Brighton trust, said: "Changing the language we use in this way is something people who use our services have been asking for, for some time.
"Our aim will always be to treat everyone who uses our services as an individual, providing care that is personal to them, that meets their needs and using language they are comfortable with."
In recent years, there has been strong debate on terms used to describe gender.
Author JK Rowling faced criticism for posting tweets in which she took issue with the phrase "people who menstruate".
She said in a blog that her interest in trans issues stemmed from being a survivor of abuse and having concerns around single-sex spaces.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-560
Women are now obsolete..
It's a "joke" BSG.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:36 pm
by ex-khobar Andy
Gob wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:10 am
An NHS trust is to use "gender inclusive language" for its maternity services, including terms such as "chestfeeding" and "birthing parent".
Sussex University
Women are now obsolete..
It's a "joke" BSG.
Did you bring enough micro-font for all the class, Gob?
That's my alma mater you're talking about.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:26 pm
by Scooter
Some of the people who are giving birth are men. One can either choose to acknowledge that reality, and adapt to it, or not.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:13 pm
by Big RR
Perhaps, but chest feeding? Men do have breasts (or at least a breast) as I recall from elementary school poems I had to memorize and recite, talking about things like a feeling of pride within my breast.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:00 pm
by Gob
Scooter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:26 pm
Some of the people who are giving birth are men. One can either choose to acknowledge that reality, and adapt to it, or not.
I prefer think of them as people who want to be men, but have female bodies. With tits.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:54 pm
by TPFKA@W
It’s in the DNA which doesn’t lie.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:57 pm
by Big RR
It may not lie, but it does not always state things, even gender, unequivocally.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:11 pm
by Econoline
Regardless of what you think about gender I would think that a baby coming out of one's vagina states something quite unequivocally about one's sex.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:14 pm
by Joe Guy
When a man has transgender surgery do they replace his dick with a jane?
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:27 pm
by Scooter
So we're back to a chorus of "transgender men are not 'real' men/transgender women are not 'real' women", and gratuitous mockery.
Predictable.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:17 pm
by Econoline
No, we're back to "SEX ≠ GENDER."
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:39 pm
by Scooter
And of what relevance is that distinction to a policy about "gender inclusive language"? Except, of course, to conflate the two in order to denigrate the policy.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:22 am
by Joe Guy
Scooter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:27 pm
So we're back to a chorus of "transgender men are not 'real' men/transgender women are not 'real' women", and gratuitous mockery.
Do you expect me, of all people here, to be serious in a thread titled "Chesticles"?
I could get serious if somebody asked for opinions instead of complaining about what others have written.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:39 am
by Bicycle Bill
Scooter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:27 pm
So we're back to a chorus of "transgender men are not 'real' men/transgender women are not 'real' women", and gratuitous mockery.
Predictable.
No, undeniable fact. Cutting off your tallywhacker, sticking two globs of silicone on your chest, and turning your ballsack inside out to make it into a pussy
(or whatever it is they do to construct an ersatz penis-holster) doesn't make you a woman any more than tying stilts on its legs and dying it pink will turn a turkey into a flamingo.
-"BB"-
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:11 am
by Scooter
As I said, predictable.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:15 am
by Scooter
Joe Guy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:22 am
Do you expect me, of all people here, to be serious in a thread titled "Chesticles"?
One could ask why almost every thread about transgender people is begun and/or degenerates into denigrating them and/or making them the butt of a joke.
I could get serious if somebody asked for opinions instead of complaining about what others have written.
You had the opportunity to express and opinion, and how you used it says it all.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:30 am
by BoSoxGal
Scooter you’re just tossing pearls on this subject. I think you must know that. The toxic transphobia on this board ain’t going away.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:42 am
by dales
Just for you, BSG!
Lola
Song by The Kinks
I met her in a club down in old Soho
Where you drink champagne and it tastes just like coca cola
C-O-L-A, Cola
She walked up to me and she asked me to dance
I asked her her name and in a dark brown voice she said Lola
L-O-L-A, Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Well, I'm not the world's most physical guy
But when she squeezed me tight she nearly broke my spine
Oh my Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Well, I'm not dumb but I can't understand
Why she walked like a woman but talked like a man
Oh my Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Well, we drank champagne and danced all night
Under electric candlelight
She picked me up and sat me on her knee
And said "Dear boy, won't you come home with me?"
Well, I'm not the world's most passionate guy
But when I looked in her eyes, well I almost fell for my Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
I pushed her away
I walked to the door
I fell to the floor
I got down on my knees
Then I looked at her and she at me
Well, that's the way that I want it to stay
And I always want it to be that way for my Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world, except for Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Well, I left home just a week before
And I'd never ever kissed a woman before
But Lola smiled and took me by the hand
And said "Dear boy, I'm gonna make you a man"
Well, I'm not the world's most masculine man
But I know what I am and I'm glad I'm a man
And so is Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:47 am
by Joe Guy
BoSoxGal wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:30 am
Scooter you’re just tossing pearls on this subject. I think you must know that. The toxic transphobia on this board ain’t going away.
To me, all of this arguing about terminology that should be required when addressing or talking about transsexuals is a joke. I'm sorry if that offends people. Seeing humor in this doesn't make me transphobic. If you believe it does, then explain why that is.
Re: Chesticles
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:24 am
by MajGenl.Meade
If we could get away from all the dust-stomping and chest-thumping, read this article (suggested):
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -mcconnell
It's a sensitive and thoughtful look at the subject. However, this person (a woman reassigned as a man) required hormonal reversal - to go back from the man-track to being female - in order to achieve pregnancy and birth.
Let's say that again. A woman who identified as a man had hormone therapy to become a man and the removal of chest furniture. "He" then decided "he" had some kind of natural urge to have a child. To do so, "he" went through medical procedures to reverse from "him" to "her" because it isn't "hims" who can bear children but "hers". "She" then re-reversed the process to grow a mustache and beard and be "dad".
Whatever I may think of this - and whatever Scooter may think of this - the FACT is that a "man" didn't give birth. A woman did.