Mother, should I build the wall?

[Gob]

Hundreds of organisations wanting to be included on Stonewall's equality leaderboard should replace the term 'mother' with 'parent who has given birth', the LGBT charity has said.

The controversial group has issued various guidance to employers wanting to make the cut on its Workplace Equality Index, which has attracted more than 500 applications in the last year.

A number of government departments, such as the Home Office, the Department for International Trade and the Ministry of Justice - ranked as high as fifth - feature on the list, as well as the likes of MI6 and the British Army.


The guidance includes urging employers to add gender pronouns to email signatures, outlawing single sex toilets and changing rooms, and running a rainbow laces campaign, the Telegraph reports.

Its latest advice, to ban the word 'mother' has sparked a backlash, however, with campaigners calling for an inquiry into how the group has had such an influence on Whitehall.

It comes after it was revealed earlier this week that the Equalities Minister Liz Truss wants the Government to quit a diversity scheme run by Stonewall amid a row over trans rights.

Miss Truss is said to be pushing for departments to join the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) and Acas in dropping the Diversity Champions scheme over fears it is not providing value for money.

After criticism from the gay former Conservative MP Matthew Parris, Ms Kelley told the BBC: 'With all beliefs including controversial beliefs there is a right to express those beliefs publicly and where they're harmful or damaging - whether it's anti-Semitic beliefs, gender critical beliefs, beliefs about disability - we have legal systems that are put in place for people who are harmed by that.'

According to Stonewall there are more than 850 organisations, including 250 government departments and public bodies such as police forces, local councils and NHS trusts, signed up as 'diversity champions'.

Membership to the scheme starts at around £2,500, which according to the LGBT charity's website, buys employers access to expert advice and resources to make their workplaces 'inclusive'.

However, the charity was embroiled in a new row over transgender rights last week, when its chief executive Nancy Kelley likened 'gender critical' beliefs to anti-Semitism as she defended its pro-trans campaigning.

The EHRC, Britain's equalities watchdog, then cut ties with a Stonewall scheme for 'woke' workplaces after claims that it curbs free speech among staff.

Its decision comes amid accusations the scheme is encouraging public bodies and firms to adopt policies that create a 'culture of fear' among workers who disagree with transgender ideology.

A letter to the feminist campaign group Sex Matters from new commission chairman Baroness Falkner revealed: 'We wrote to Stonewall in March to let them know that we would not be renewing our membership, and this has now expired.'

Now, documents seen by the Telegraph reveal the extent of the guidance Stonewall gives employers wanting to make its leaderboard.

[Scooter]

And the transphobic outrage fest marches on...

[MajGenl.Meade]

Mothers give birth. Fathers do not.
End of story.

[Big RR]

So one only becomes a mother by giving birth? Please; there are many parents of step kids, adopted kids, etc. who would vehemently disagree. the group can promote gender neutral language for parents, but many, including me, would consider these persons "mothers". And if giving birth is not a prerequisite to the title, then why should gender be? I understand their point, but think we can be better than that.

[Long Run]

[Big RR]

[MajGenl.Meade]

So one only becomes a mother by giving birth?

Don't make stuff up, thank you.

The complaint by the woke wankers was to replace the word 'mother' with the words 'parent who has given birth'. (It's an observable fact that assholes always want to replace one word with many words).

Unless you know some amazing biological truth that I do not, a person who gives birth is a mother. Further, such a person is a woman and is neither a man nor a father.

Which is not at all the same as saying "A mother is only defined as a person who has given birth".

[Gob]

And the transphobic outrage fest marches on...

It's not "transPHOBIC" to laugh at the stupidity of these people. This fascist view that you are only allowed to perceive people through a "woke" lens is laughable too.

[Big RR]

Meade--I read your comment "mothers give birth, fathers do not" which at least implies fathers are not mothers because they do not give birth, correct?

Why is it "making stuff up" to extend that reasoning to others who do not give birth and saying they are not mothers? I know you'd like to tailor your opinion to apply only to men, and that women who do not give birth cannot still be mothers, but it loses something when you add the gender qualifier. There are many single parents of both genders who are both mother and father to their children, and there are plenty of women who have done nothing but give birth who have never been mothers to their child(ren). I don't think it offneds the term mother to broaden it beyond conventional gender roles. I am not abig fan of changing the term "mother" to "the parent who has given birth", but in many cases that description is much more accurate.

[Scooter]

And the transphobic outrage fest marches on...

It's not "transPHOBIC" to laugh at the stupidity of these people. This fascist view that you are only allowed to perceive people through a "woke" lens is laughable too.

Ridiculing attempts to be trans inclusive is absolutely transphobic. So sorry if it wounds your cisgender fragility to point that out.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Meade--I read your comment "mothers give birth, fathers do not" which at least implies means fathers are not mothers because they do not give birth, correct?

A self-evident truth. And FTFY.
Merriam-Webster:
Definition of mother
NOUN
1a : a female parent.

ADJECTIVE
3 : acting as or providing parental stock —used without reference to sex[/b]

Fathers can "act as". Not sure about the stock; something to do with cooking Hansel and Gretel perhaps.

A school acts as a parent - but that doesn't make it a mother (or a father) - in loco parentis. A person may call themselves an aardvark (noun) - that doesn't make them an aardvark - merely loco.

Nope. A mother is a woman.

[Big RR]

A school acts as a parent - but that doesn't make it a mother (or a father) - in loco parentis.

Now, now, many call their school, especially their college, as their alma mater--which roughly translates to mother of their soul. So schools can be mothers, can they not?

[Joe Guy]

A school acts as a parent - but that doesn't make it a mother (or a father) - in loco parentis.

Now, now, many call their school, especially their college, as their alma mater--which roughly translates to mother of their soul. So schools can be mothers, can they not?

This discussion is silly. A mother is a woman who gives birth. I move that we replace the term 'gay' with "a person characterized by sexual or romantic attraction to people of one's same sex." It flows off the tongue much more easily and this way you won't confuse being gay with being happy.

[Scooter]

Yes, a woman who gives birth is a mother. The issue is that there are some trans men who also give birth. Since they are not women, the term "mother" does not include them. Apparently the desire to use terminology that does include them has set off a firestorm among some whose fragility is threatened by it.

[Joe Guy]

Yes, a woman who gives birth is a mother. The issue is that there are some trans men who also give birth. Since they are not women, the term "mother" does not include them. Apparently the desire to use terminology that does include them has set off a firestorm among some whose fragility is threatened by it.

Maybe it has "set off a firestorm" with some people because the idea is to remove the term 'mother' when mothers do exist rather than simply adding a new term for trans men who give birth. I suggest 'fother.'

[Scooter]

Or, we could just be precise and inclusive by using a term that applies to both women and men who give birth, rather than muddle the waters further. And contrary to the pearl clutchers, that doesn't require removing the word "mother" from the lexicon where it is appropriately used.

[Crackpot]

Why should the majority change for the sake of the minority? Is what shame is there in “mother” that makes the term unacceptable in every case?

[MajGenl.Meade]

I really don't understand.

The only case I've seen of a woman transitioning to a man and giving birth is one in which the transition was reversed back to woman in order for the pregnancy to happen. Then "she' is back on the path to being "he"

No man is born with a womb. No man has ever given birth. Only women do. (or females in the case of other mammals)

Big RR - you insist on the adjective; I insist on the noun. You are playing grammar games while I am stating the fact. All mothers (noun) are women. A school is not a mother but standing in place of same . . . a father is not a mother but stands in place of same . . . if you want to declare a 1-all draw, play extra time and go to penalties................

[Joe Guy]

Or, we could just be precise and inclusive by using a term that applies to both women and men who give birth, rather than muddle the waters further. And contrary to the pearl clutchers, that doesn't require removing the word "mother" from the lexicon where it is appropriately used.

You mean use a term like ‘Parent’?

[Scooter]

Why should the majority change for the sake of the minority? Is what shame is there in “mother” that makes the term unacceptable in every case?

So I guess it should be okay to go back to having job or housing ads that say "interested whites may apply" rather than "interested people may apply" because whites are in the majority and shouldn't have had to change for the minority.

Or, we could just be precise and inclusive by using a term that applies to both women and men who give birth, rather than muddle the waters further. And contrary to the pearl clutchers, that doesn't require removing the word "mother" from the lexicon where it is appropriately used.

You mean use a term like ‘Parent’?

Using "parent" in the context of giving birth is still going to piss off those who insist that it is "erasing" mothers.