and they call the Taliban medieval?

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Gob
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and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Gob »

The most radical abortion law in the US has gone into effect, despite legal efforts to block it.

A near-total abortion ban in Texas empowers any private citizen to sue an abortion provider who violates the law, opening the floodgates to harassing and frivolous lawsuits from anti-abortion vigilantes that could eventually shutter most clinics in the state.

“Abortion access will be thrown into absolute chaos,” says Amanda Williams, executive director of the abortion support group the Lilith Fund, a plaintiff in the suit that challenged the law. “Unfortunately, many people who need access the most will slip through the cracks, as we have seen over the years with the relentless attacks here in our state.

“It is unbelievable that Texas politicians have gotten away with this devastating and cruel law that will harm so many.”

Senate Bill 8, ushered through the Republican-dominated Texas legislature and signed into law by the Republican governor, Greg Abbott, in May, bars abortion once embryonic cardiac activity is detected, which is around six weeks, and offers no exceptions for rape or incest. Texas is the first state to ban abortion this early in pregnancy since Roe v Wade, and last-minute efforts to halt it through an appeal to the US supreme court by Tuesday did not succeed.

While a dozen other states have passed similar so-called “heartbeat” bills, they have all been blocked by the courts. The Texas version is novel in that it is intentionally designed to shield government officials from enforcement, and thus make legal challenges more difficult to secure. It instead incentivizes any private citizen in the US to bring civil suit against an abortion provider or anyone who “aids or abets” the procedure.

The law “immediately and catastrophically reduces abortion access in Texas”, say state abortion providers, and will probably force many abortion clinics to ultimately close. It will prevent the majority of Texas women (85%) from accessing abortion care, as most aren’t aware they are pregnant as early as six weeks.

Planned Parenthood, which operates 11 clinics in the state, and Whole Woman’s Health clinics told the Guardian they would comply with the extreme law despite the fact that it is contrary to their best medical practices. In the days leading up to the law’s enactment, Texas clinics say they have been forced to turn away patients who need abortion care at the law’s cutoff point this week and into the near future.
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Scooter
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Scooter »

So basically every woman who has her period has to live in fear of being taken to court and being forced to prove that it wasn't an induced abortion.
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Burning Petard
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Burning Petard »

How does chemical, or morning after pill, enter into this? Is someone gonna inspect menstrual pads for DNA from more than one person?

Then again, we have law judges deciding if humans can take a de-worming drug for horses.

snailgate

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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Big RR »

I imagine someone selling/dispensing the pill could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting, although I imagine anyone who wanted could drive out of state and get the pill (and FWIW, so long as they take the pill outside of Texas, anyone driving them would not be breaking the law either, at least as it's explained here). Also, it is likely that the pill could be used before the sixth week, so if someone told a pharmacist that they just had unprtected sex and wanted to prevent any chance of pregnancy, it's likely that it would not be aiding/abetting to dispense it (unelss the law requires a medical exam and prescription to get it--again, unknown).

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BoSoxGal
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Some education on emergency contraception pills (Morning After/Plan B) and abortion pills (RU486) would be useful to commenters here.

Surgical abortion cannot be eradicated by those methods, because both methods are far from 100% efficacious and both can cause serious birth defects to a fetus of a persisting pregnancy.

A great many pregnant women do not even know know they are pregnant at 6-7 weeks of pregnancy. RU486 is contraindicated if it has been longer than 7 weeks since last menses. Many women have irregular periods so cannot even easily track cycles.

Many men think we are robots whose bodies all behave the same. We are not.

The women of Texas are fucked.
Last edited by BoSoxGal on Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Big RR
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Big RR »

Well, if surgical abortions are needed, I'd be willing to donate to establish a service to transport Texas women who want abortions to other states, at least until this law is struck down.

As for the morning after pill and abortion pill,I am under no misconception that all women's bodies are the same, but these have been successfully used by many (indeed, I personally know a few women who chose to use them and were successful) and should continue to be part of the way to circumvent the asinine pronouncements of and idiotic legislature and governor.

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

And at the same time, any Texan 21 or older can openly carry a handgun (?? - if it's in a holster on my belt but my shirt or jacket covers part or all of it, is that still considered 'open carry'?) without a license, as long as they’re not otherwise prohibited from carrying.  For instance, a person convicted of a felony is precluded from carrying a handgun.  The law also stipulates that a person would be barred from carrying without a license if convicted in the past five years of misdemeanor assault causing bodily injury, deadly conduct, terroristic threat or disorderly conduct by displaying or discharging a firearm.

Which means it's now OK for a woman to pack a pistol and shoot down those bastards before they knock her up in the first place.

So glad the Lone Star State has got their priorities in proper order.
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Scooter
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

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dales
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

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The women of Texas are fucked.
"Were" is a far more descriptive term.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


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Scooter
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

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BoSoxGal
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Big RR wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:25 pm
Well, if surgical abortions are needed, I'd be willing to donate to establish a service to transport Texas women who want abortions to other states, at least until this law is struck down.
There already is an abortion travel agency in Texas that helps women get to clinics far from them in that vast state, or to clinics out of state where necessary. Texas laws already restricted access by mandating a two day process requiring overnight stays for women from hours away and already women further along in pregnancy had to travel out of Texas altogether.

Hopefully any of y’all upset over this new draconian law will send your quarterly charitable donations here:

SUPPORT ABORTION ACCESS
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Econoline
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Econoline »

How can there be such a thing as a six-week "fetal heartbeat" when there isn't a fetus (it becomes a fetus rather than an embryo at ~11 weeks, IIRC) and, more importantly, there isn't an actual heart formed yet?

And under the Texas "vigilante plaintiff" law, won't there be a certain burden of proof necessary for the plaintiffs to win a case? And won't the state still be in charge of enforcing any judgement by means of the civil law and its associated courts? (I mean, anyone can make an accusation and sue for $10,000, but wouldn't they have to *PROVE* certain alleged facts in court?)


Also too...if it really would be just as easy as suggested for a vigilante accuser to win a $10K judgment for what is essentially a "thoughtcrime", wouldn't it also be just as easy to accuse (and sue) any random Texan gun nut of planning to kill a fetus?

Just curious... :shrug
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Gob
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Gob »

Scooter wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:24 pm
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Insane.
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Supreme Court has spoken. Or rather, it hasn't. They declined, by a 5-4 majority, to get involved. The only surprise is that John Roberts (yes, that John Roberts) joined the 'liberal' wing of SCOTUS.

From the NYT piece:
The majority opinion was unsigned and consisted of a single long paragraph. It said the abortion providers who had challenged the law in an emergency application to the court had not made their case in the face of “complex and novel” procedural questions. The majority stressed that it was not ruling on the constitutionality of the Texas law and did not mean to limit “procedurally proper challenges” to it.
I don't understand the 'complex and novel' procedural issues. But would it not have made more sense, if there were constitutionality questions, to have put some kind of temporary stop to the law until those issues could be resolved?

We should have been on the streets when McConnell nixed Garland. And I firmly believe that SCOTUS should then, as the supposed adult in the room, have said: "You can't fucking do that."

People like McConnell (and yes, I am well aware that many of my neighbors voted for him) are more dangerous to the Union than Osama bin Laden and his fellow travelers.

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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Big RR »

Econoline--I think Texas is hoping that the threat of multiple suits will convince abortion providers and abettors in the state to stop providing the services and support. Opening it to letting the public participate will encourage the assholes to file suit after suit (there appears to be no penalty for a loss);it kind of reminds me of what happens in some HOAs.

BSG--thanks for the link; I'll look into it. It seems like one of the most effective ways of standing up to these jerks.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Big RR wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:58 pm
BSG--thanks for the link; I'll look into it. It seems like one of the most effective ways of standing up to these jerks.
From the ‘about’ page:
OUR STORY
Fund Texas Choice (formerly Fund Texas Women) is a non-profit organization that pays for Texans’ travel to abortion clinics. We were formed in response to the passage of Texas House Bill 2, which closed nearly 75% of over 40 Texan clinics in 2013 and 2014. The closures were primarily in rural and low-income areas of the state, necessitating cost-prohibitive, time-wasting, and geographically-difficult travel for groups already facing financial obstacles to abortion.

In the summer of 2016, the Supreme Court dismantled HB2, but our work isn’t finished yet.

This legislation did its damage; most of the clinics closed by HB2 have not reopened. For some friends in West Texas, the closest abortion clinic is a 5-hour drive away. East-Texans near Louisiana and North-Texans near Oklahoma have clinics closer to them but public transit in these regions is extremely sparse. Below is a map of the clinics left in our area.

Since HB2, the Texas legislature has passed more laws restricting abortions and making it difficult to get one. For example, there is a mandatory 24-hour waiting period between an initial consultation with an abortion provider and the abortion. That means it takes a minimum of 2 days, but sometimes even a week! That's why we provide both transportation and accommodation.

Another law - a 6 week abortion ban - the so-called the heartbeat bill - went into effect September 1, 2021. This law puts abortion providers and ANYONE WHO ASSISTS a person at risk. Literally ANYONE can bring a civil suit against them with a minimum award of $10,000.

Thankfully, the pregnant person is not liable, either criminally or civilly.

Nevertheless, Fund Texas Choice continues to serve pregnant people who are seeking abortion-related services and information. We do so in compliance with the law to the best of our understanding.
I got to wondering - would this crazy law allow these folks to be sued for helping a pregnant Texan travel to another state for an abortion that is perfectly legal there at up to 20 weeks?

The law is so insane. Anyone in the entire US has standing absent any showing of harm to sue anybody who helps a pregnant Texan to get an abortion there after fetal electrical activity is detectable. INSANE.

After the SCOTUS declined to intervene I have half a mind to tear up my goatskin and write a letter requesting my name be removed from the rolls of the federal bar.

Equal concerning as the reproductive rights of pregnant persons is the descent of the federal judiciary into the depths that these Talibangelists are dragging this country in their war on women and progressives.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Big RR
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Big RR »

And, abortion aside, the larger questions should scare everyone--can a state enact patently illegal statutes and avoid review of them by delegating the enforcement power to the public at large, basically, to let the public do what the state will not? I would hope not, but the recent action of the Supreme court makes me think this might be a way to curtail individual rights without state action that coudl be enjoined. So maybe we'll see states permitting the public to sue people who sell birth control, or who perform same sex marriages, or publish opinions critical of the government, or ... Regardless of how you feel about abortion, this should scare the hell out of everyone.

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Econoline
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Econoline »

Here's a thingy someone found somewhere on the Interwebs:
a darn shame in TX.jpg
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BoSoxGal
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by BoSoxGal »

If civil actions actually start getting filed left and right under this law, I wonder how long the Texas judiciary will stand for the impact on the civil courts.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Gob
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Re: and they call the Taliban medieval?

Post by Gob »

"Texans... living proof that Indians fucked buffalo"
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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