Plan B Forum

Posted: **Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:06 pm**

Learning a foreign language will be compulsory from the age of seven in England's primary schools in an overhaul of the national curriculum, the education secretary is to announce.

Michael Gove will also say later this week that children as young as five will be expected to recite poetry.

There will also be a new focus on spelling and grammar.

The plans will be put out to public consultation later in the year, ahead of a scheduled introduction in 2014.

The proposals come amid concerns over a decline in pupils taking foreign languages at GCSE.

In 2010, 43% of GCSE pupils were entered for a language, down from a peak of 75% in 2002.

The last Labour government ended compulsory language study for children after the age of 14 in 2004.

Shadow education secretary Stephen Twigg defended that decision, telling the BBC's Sunday Politics the "mistake had been not to focus on primary schools first".

He welcomed the government's ideas, saying: "I think it's absolutely right. Children will get a love of languages if they start them young."

Under Mr Gove's plans, primary schools could offer lessons in Mandarin, Latin and Greek, as well as French, German and Spanish.

A systematic approach to the teaching of phonics - the sounds of letters and groups of letters - would be advocated to help pupils to become fluent readers and good spellers, it said.

Russell Hobby, general secretary of the school leaders' union, NAHT, said "reciting poetry and learning foreign languages are great for young children: both useful and enjoyable. That's why almost every primary school in the country teaches them both already."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18384536

Posted: **Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:32 pm**

and the other side of the coin...

A new campaign has been launched to save traditional British rhymes and songs amid fears they are dying out.

The push follows sanitised, more upbeat versions of classic nursery rhymes, including Humpty Dumpty, being taught to children. In one updated version the hero didn't get bumped or bruised at all, but instead 'bungee jumped'. In another instead of being unable to 'put Humpty together again', the new version claimed all the King's horses and all the King's men 'made Humpty happy again'.

The English Folk and Dance Society is running the new National Lottery funded campaign to save traditional rhymes and songs.

Rachel Elliott, the society's education director, told The Telegraph: 'There can be a risk of people being oversensitive and sanitising these things. 'They have to be contextualised – we don’t want to condone drunkenness by singing about the Drunken Sailor.

'But there was a lot of drunkenness at that time. And I don’t think the song is going to encourage it now.'

Humpty Dumpty 'bungee jumped'

The original children's poem:

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the King's horses, And all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again!
A new sanitised version:

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
He didn't get bruised,
He didn't get bumped,
Humpty Dumpty bungee jumped!
The society has warned that in some schools children are more likely to learn eastern European or African songs than English ones. Some songs have been dropped because they refer to death, disease or war in ways that have been judged as no longer be suitable for children. The society's new campaign, which has attracted a £585,400 grant, will eventually create the world’s biggest online collection of English folk music, song and dance manuscripts.

Malcolm Taylor, the society's library director, told The Telegraph: 'The other cultures that you find in schools have more of a sense of tradition than the indigenous white children. 'So they will learn about folk songs from other cultures, from Poland, and Africa – as they should, to engage those people – but you need to correct it by increasing the resources for English songs.'

In 2009 a government funded song book changed the lyrics of What Shall We Do With the Drunken Sailor? to remove and reference to alcohol or punishment. The BBC was accused of 'outrageous' political correctness in the same year after changing the words to a nursery rhyme on a children's show. CBeebies programme Something Special altered the words to Humpty Dumpty and gave it a more cheerful ending. Instead of being unable to 'put Humpty together again', the new version claimed all the King's horses and all the King's men 'made Humpty happy again'.

The Pricklie Bush about a condemned woman pleading for someone to save her from the hangman is among the songs the society hopes to revive. The project will involve primary and secondary schools, with workshops for teachers to encourage singing. It will also provide online teaching materials, lyrics and music. Katy Spicer, the society's chief executive, said: 'This project that will enable people from across the world to access English folk music, songs and dances. 'It will preserve the original collections for generations to come.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1xR6hyFzb

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:31 am**

Would this be similar to the word 'nigger' being removed from Tom Sawyer? You can't appreciate how we have overcome many racial issues if you have no 'sense' of how poorly people have been treated whether sweat houses, slavery, religion, etc. That book had much more impact on me with the derogatory references. I remember 'To Kill a Mockingbird' made it very clear to me about mistreatment and stereotyping of ANYONE is wrong. I'm sure all of are guilty of it at one point in our lives. I believe it comes down to ignorance. How can you edit the author's work and still publish? It's like changing an artist's original a percentage to make it your own. Textbooks have become almost useless as far as I'm concerned. I found in college that having to buy and learn different textbooks based on opinions of the teacher and areas they wanted to address. Isn't that kind of biased? A teacher should be able to present information in an unbiased way and then make the decisions on their own. I have always been in favour of 'suggested reading lists' from instructors. You are not being forced to buy them in order to fulfill requirement of the class.

I apologize for just ranting in such an unfocused manner. I have trouble writing thoughts in an organized format and tend to wander all over.

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:03 am**

What Shall We Do With the Drunken Sailor? to remove and reference to alcohol or punishment.

Gee that much have been a challenge...

Coming up next....

A completely non-mysogynist version of Barnacle Bill the Sailor....

Whether it's removing the word "nigger" from The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn, or air brushing out Winston Churchill's cigar from classic photos, or rewriting bawdy sea shantys, I am absolutely 100% opposed to the re-writing of the historical record as it took place to meet some sort of contemporary PC standard....

If George Orwell were alive today, I can just imagine what he'd have to say about this...

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:05 am**

Oh look, I actually managed to find the sanitized version "What Do We Do with A Drunken Sailor"...

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:17 am**

Back when I was in college, a friend of mine gave me a book with a collection of PC Children's Stories...(that's how long this has been going on...though back in those days, it was considered satire...

)

Through the wonder of the internet, I was actually able to find my favorite story from that book:

The Three Little Pigs

Once there were 3 little pigs who lived together in mutual respect and in harmony with their environment. Using materials that were indigenous to the area they each built a beautiful house. One pig built a house of straw, one a house of sticks, and one a house of dung, clay and creeper vines shaped into bricks and baked in a small kiln. When they were finished, the pigs were satisfied with their work and settled back to live in peace and self-determination. But their idyll was soon shattered.

One day, along came a big, bad wolf with expansionist ideas. He saw the pigs and grew very hungry in both a physical and ideological sense. When the pigs saw the wolf, they ran into the house of straw. The wolf ran up to the house and banged on the door, shouting, "Little pigs, little pigs, let me in!"

The pigs shouted back, "Your gunboat tactics hold no fear for pigs defending their homes and culture."

But the wolf wasn't to be denied what he thought was his manifest destiny. So he huffed and puffed and blew down the house of straw. The frightened pigs ran to the house of sticks, with the wolf in hot pursuit. Where the house had stood, other wolves bought up the land and started a banana plantation.

At the house of sticks, the wolf again banged on the door and shouted, "Little, pigs, little pigs, let me in!" The pigs shouted back, "Go to hell, you carnivorous, imperialistic oppressor!"

At this the wolf huffed and puffed and blew down the house of sticks. The pigs ran to the house of bricks, with the wolf close at their heels. Where the house of sticks had stood, other wolves built a time-share condo resort complex for vacationing wolves, with each unit a fibreglass reconstruction of the house of sticks, as well as native curio shops, snorkelling and dolphin shows.

At the house of bricks, the wolf again banged on the door and shouted, "Little pigs, little pigs, let me in!"

This time in response, the pigs sang songs of solidarity and wrote letters of protest to the United Nations.

By now the wolf was getting angry at the pigs' refusal to see the situation from the carnivore's point of view. So he huffed and puffed, and huffed and puffed, then grabbed his chest and fell over dead from a massive heart attack brought on from eating too many fatty foods.

The three little pigs rejoiced that justice had triumphed and did a little dance around the corpse of the wolf. Their next step was to liberate their homeland. They gathered together a band of other pigs who had been forced off their lands. This new brigade of porcinistas attacked the resort complex with machine-guns and rocket launchers and slaughtered the cruel wolf oppressors, sending a clear signal to the rest of the hemisphere not to meddle in their internal affairs. Then the pigs set up a model socialist democracy with free education, universal health care and affordable housing for everyone.

Please note: The wolf in this story was a metaphorical construct. No actual wolves were harmed in the writing of the story.

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:30 am**

Oh god, enough is enough, pass me the razor blades...

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:46 am**

Oh gee, I found another one...

Little Red Riding Hood

There once was a young person named Red Riding Hood who lived with her mother on the edge of a large wood. One day her mother asked her to take a basket of fresh fruit and mineral water to her grandmother’s house–not because this was womyn’s work, mind you, but because the deed was generous and helped engender a feeling of community. Furthermore, her grandmother was not sick, but rather was in full physical and mental health and was fully capable of taking care of herself as a mature adult.

So Red Riding Hood set out with her basket of food through the woods. Many people she knew believed that the forest was a foreboding and dangerous place and never set foot in it. Red Riding Hood, however, was confident enough in her own budding sexuality that such obvious Freudian imagery did not hinder her.

On her way to Grandma’s house, Red Riding Hood was accosted by a Wolf, who asked her what was in her basket. She replied, “Some healthful snacks for my grandmother, who is certainly capable of taking care of herself as a mature adult.”

The Wolf said, “You know; my dear, it isn’t safe for a little girl to walk through these woods alone.”

Red Riding Hood said, “I find your sexist remark offensive in the extreme, but I will ignore it because of your traditional status as an outcast from society, the stress of which has caused you to develop your own, entirely valid worldview. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I must be on my way.”

Red Riding Hood walked on along the main path. But, because his status outside society had freed him from slavish adherence to linear, Western-style though, the Wolf knew of a quicker route to Grandma’s house. He burst into the house and ate Grandma, an entirely valid course of action for a carnivore such as himself. Then, unhampered by rigid, traditionalist notions of what was masculine or feminine, he put on Grandma’s nightclothes and crawled into bed.

Red Riding Hood entered the cottage and said, “Grandma, I have brought you some fat-free sodium-free snacks to salute you in your role of a wise and nurturing matriarch.”

From the bed, the Wolf said softly, “Come closer, child, so that I might see you.”

Red Riding Hood said, “Oh, I forgot you are as optically challenged as a bat. Grandma, what big eyes you have!”

“They have seen much, and forgiven much, my dear.”

“Grandma, what a big nose you have–only relatively, of course, and certainly attractive in its own way.”

“It has smelled much, and forgiven much, my dear.”

“Grandma, what big teeth you have!”

The Wolf said, “I am happy with who I am and what I am,” and leaped out of bed. He grabbed Red Riding Hood in his claws, intent on devouring her. Red Riding Hood screamed, not out of alarm at the Wolfs apparent tendency toward cross-dressing, but because of his willful invasion of her personal space.

Her screams were heard by a passing woodchopper-person (or log-fuel technician, as he preferred to be called). When he burst into the cottage, he saw the melée and tried to intervene.

But as he raised his ax, Red Riding Hood and the Wolf both stopped.

“And what do you think you’re doing?” asked Red Riding Hood.

The woodchopper-person blinked and tried to answer, but no words came to him.

“Bursting in here like a Neanderthal, trusting your weapon to do your thinking for you!” she said. “Sexist! Speciesist! How dare you assume that womyn and wolves can’t solve their own problems without a man s help!”

When she heard Red Riding Hood’s speech, Grandma jumped out of the Wolf’s mouth, took the woodchopper-person’s axe, and cut his head off. After this ordeal, Red Riding Hood, Grandma, and the Wolf felt a certain commonality of purpose. They decided to set up an alternative household based on mutual respect and cooperation, and they lived together in the woods happily ever after.

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:47 am**

This is appalling. Why am I hoping it's a joke?

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:48 am**

But I agree about learning a language.

The Hatch has been involved in a foreign language since pre-school. Then it was French, now it is Japanese.

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:23 am**

Poor old Humpty! This from March 2006:

Nursery school children are being taught to sing 'Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep' instead of the traditional rhyme.
It is not the first time the rhyme has been altered - previous substitutes for black include 'green' and 'happy' sheep.

In 1999 Birmingham City Council said the rhyme should not be taught in school because it was racially negative and could cause offence. Last year a number of nursery schools in western Scotland began singing 'Baa Baa Happy Sheep'. .

Three years ago Mothercare sold cassette tapes and CDs with a new version of Humpty Dumpty in which there was a happy ending. In the PC version, Humpty Dumpty was able to 'count to ten and get up again'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1xTH0VQdL

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:05 pm**

What is the point of learning a foreign language? Really? Especially for Americans. You learn a language, then never have any occasion to use it unless you force the issue.

I took four years of Spanish in high school, and could work my way through most common situations while visiting Mexico, but that knowledge goes away after decades of non-use. I learned to speak a bit of Italian to help with family situations after I got married (most of the Italians are dead now).

If I lived somewhere that made bi-lingual proficiency necessary (Miami, Montreal), certainly I'd be all for it, but what's the point of teaching some kid in Idaho how to speak French?

The more time passes, the more of the world is conversant in English.

I would think that English international businessmen ought to be comfortable in one or two foreign languages, but for the average bloke, what's the point?

If teaching languages is to be a priority, let's demand that anyone seeking permanent residency in a country BE ABLE TO SPEAK THE LANGUAGE OF THAT COUNTRY. That will keep the language teachers busy for quite a while.

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:08 pm**

I hear at lest 3c different languages Daily.

Having tried rosetta stone I wouldn't mind usibg it to learn a few languages had I the time.

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:37 pm**

dgs - learning a language at a young age will establish pathways in your brain to learn other things with greater ease.

That is why learning a language is important.

Posted: **Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:18 pm**

What Hen said. Also, learning a language (or several languages) is much easier for a young child than for a teenager or an adult. If, as you say, fluency in one or more languages other than English is an advantage for an international businessman (or -woman!

), wouldn't it be stupid for parents to make a decision that would make such a career more difficult for their children?

Posted: **Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:54 am**

dgs49 wrote: What is the point of learning a foreign language? ....... I would think that English international businessmen ought to be comfortable in one or two foreign languages, but for the average bloke, what's the point?

That looks like "asked and answered to me". dgs, I have a sneaky feeling that 'international businessmen' (or persons) begin their lives as 'average blokes" (or bloke-ettes) - i.e. as young children attending school. Very few 8 year olds (let alone 18 year olds) know that their future will be in 'international business'.

That's why the horrible system forces children to learn math, and science, and history, and geography and so on. Everyone knows that the average Amercan has no use for such things in later life but one or two might benefit.

Back to the OP - Latin? Greek? They must be kidding!

Meade

Posted: **Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:27 pm**

I'm supportive of kids learning languages - we study too late in most US schools - but I also think all kids should be learning music as a good foundation for maths.

My dad (being a former one himself) used to sing the drunken sailor song with us all the time when we were kids; I didn't see the verse that comes to mind most often: 'put him in the galley & make him peel potatoes, early in the morning'

Posted: **Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:31 pm**

I have always admired people who could speak a foreign language fluently (or play an instrument well). My former colleagues at a company based in Luxembourg were required to speak French, German, and English, as well as Luxembourgish (a distinct language, which surprises some people), and most of them knew at least one other language as well.

I don't disagree that the learning process can benefit children.

But the vast majority of people in the U.S. will NEVER use their foreign language proficiency unless they intentionally do something to use it (e.g., visit Mexico or Quebec or Germany, etc). For most, it simply becomes stagnant then fades altogether after a number of years.

About all I remember of my HS Spanish is, "Una cerveza, por favor!"

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