Weddings, Big Day or self promotion?

[Gob]

Has "an atmosphere of narcissism and self-promotion" worked its way into the idea of the modern wedding celebration?

Perhaps the thought won't be in the forefront of the minds of the thousands of people wending their way to churches, town halls and marquees around the country this weekend.

But as wedding guests shake confetti from their clothes or tie ties around heads on the dance floor, they might reflect on the purpose of the big day.

The criticism was levelled by Rev Dr Giles Fraser, Canon Chancellor of St Paul's Cathedral, rippling the usually placid waters of the Today programme's Thought for the Day with concerns that that "too many modern weddings have just lost their way".

Bride-to-be Nicole Christos holds a rack of a wedding gowns during Filene's Basement's annual sale in Bethesda, Maryland
Some people take wedding preparations a little too seriously

"I'd even say that they've become a threat to marriage itself," he added, arguing that the idea of self-sacrifice is lost when the ceremony is "specifically designed to be all about 'me', about being a 'princess for a day'".

"Most clergy I know prefer taking funerals to taking weddings," he revealed, explaining that they often have a dignity and moral seriousness that is "quite absent from many of the weddings that we get to take".

Is Dr Fraser just being grumpy after one too many dull Saturday afternoons, or have weddings really lost their seriousness?

"Actually most people see it as a celebration," says Catherine Westwood, editor of Wedding magazine.

"If the celebration is throwing a big party and having that public declaration of love then I think it should be treated that way."

She argues that the idea of a solemn wedding is as old-fashioned as a dowry.

"That stuff has just moved on. He needs to modernize a bit and be delighted that people still want to marry."

A number of recently-published surveys agree that the average cost of a wedding is around the £20,000 mark.

They can be excessively expensive, Ms Westwood admits, but this is not a modern phenomenon.

Long engagements have been the norm for centuries, allowing the betrothed time to save for the right dress, suit and honeymoon. Wedding photos from 100 years ago show brides and grooms who were just as image-conscious as today, she says.


As my mother used to say - the more pretentious the wedding, the less likely the marriage to survive.
Oliver James

Dr Fraser blames the "pervasive influence of the media" for driving people towards narcissism and lavish expenditure.

But if you want to point a finger at a group exploiting soon-to-be married couples, says Catherine Westwood, point it at the venue owners, caterers and wedding suppliers, who push up their prices as soon as the word "wedding" is mentioned.

Certainly people do get the tone of their weddings wrong, she argues, and we are perhaps shallower now than in the past, but it is still what is at the centre of the wedding that counts.

"That ultimate expression of love and wanting to be together and making that life long commitment is still at the heart of every wedding," she says.


The idea that people get married for love does appear to have scientific support, according to the author and clinical psychologist Oliver James.

"Women now place a higher premium on love," he says, citing a study for the Institute for American Values which found that the proportion of women who were willing to marry without love fell from 40% in 1960 to 15% in the late 1980s.

However, rather than good news, the shift in attitudes was "a tragedy" says Dr James, as the same period also saw a large rise in divorce rates.

He argues that fear and insecurity about how long a marriage will last has led people to compensate by splashing out on their nuptials.

"It gives them a feeling of safety and a feeling like there might be permanence in the relationship if they spend more money on it," he explains.

But at the end of the day, vicar, journalist and psychologist all agree that the underlying culture is now more image conscious and "shallow" than it has ever been.

It is not so much the media that is to blame, says Dr James, but the whole culture of materialism, which is obsessed by constant competition with peers - a category that now includes celebrities.

"People who are more materialistic are also more narcissistic," he adds.

"They are more prone to wanting to signify their importance to others through grand material displays. Classic keeping up with the Joneses."

Whether or not Dr Fraser is justified in trying to change the course of our culture is a big question. But Oliver James is clear where he stands on the issue.

"As my mother used to say - the more pretentious the wedding, the less likely the marriage to survive."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/ne ... 885275.stm

[BoSoxGal]

When I get married, I plan to do it barefoot on the beach, just my honey, me, the officiant and witness(es). We'll wear decent duds, but nothing lavish. I'll carry a simple bouquet of my favorite flowers. We'll take a few pics we can look back on in old age.

We'll honeymoon on the island where we are married, then party with our friends at a casual reception upon our return home.

Of course, I'll be post-40, having long since shaken off much of the materialism that was shoved down my throat during my ugly 80s upbringing. I've also seen enough folks at odds and stressed during wedding plans, and enough lavishly expensive weddings that celebrated marriages which ended in divorce, that I just can't see the expense.

[loCAtek]

He has a point I suppose, but I've seen lavish weddings for good marriages and bad.

There's a whole reality series in the states about narcissistic weddings called, 'Bridezillas' that really makes you wonder what kind of wives those brides are going to be.

On the other hand, the most opulent wedding I've ever attended: Christmas at St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco for a couple, both with two HUGE families (one Chinese, one Philippino) The wedding expenses including flying in family from overseas.
I think her dress had real gold threads in it; it was the most stunning gown I'd ever seen, and they had about six wardrobe changes. The feast was combination sit-down and buffet with the servers walking round with enormous tables you could choose your soup, salad and entries from. Absolutely fabulous!


...and they're doing great. Just got an email from them, as they're buying a house for their expanding family with the addition of a new baby boy! Party details to be announced.

[dales]

Hey BSG.....

That's exactly how my daughter did it.

On Oahu, on a gorgeous beach, everyone wearing ultra-casual clothes.

I was so plastered I remember little of the ceremony.

[Gob]

Although our wedding was the best ever, I must admit Sean and SMF run it a close second.

The setting for their service was nonpareil, a cliff top overlooking the beach, (though we beat that as Dylan Thomas married Caitlin Macnamarra in the same place as we got hitched.)

[Reality Bytes]

Rev Fraser undoubtedly doesn't see "ordinary" weddings since he's a canon at St Paul's none of the clery I know prefer funerals over weddings far from it, my own boss would rather take 3 back to back marriage services on the same day than 1 funeral.

I do share some of his misgivings however - I arrange about 20 weddings a year in our churches and there's always 1 or 2 which miss the whole point of a church ceremony, ringing me to see if they can book one of our churches only because they have decided to have their reception in a very posh venue located nextdoor and thought our church "looked nice" and is "conveniently located". The C of E has also made it easier for people to marry in the church of their choosing rather than having to be married in their "home parish" they now only have to satisfy the priest that they have a "local connection" with the church they want to use so some couples now seem to think that a church is just another venue to be chosen because it's "traditional" and looks nice and in most cases is a heck of a lot cheaper than having a civil ceremony anywhere other than at the registry office.

I also agree with the comments about the media and those "marketing" weddings - my son and his fiance are currently in the process of saving every penny they can towards their wedding, a date has yet to be set because they conservatively estimate they need to have at least £2,500 in the bank before they even start to make bookings with the total cost being around £5,000, a figure I initially scoffed at thinking it was wayyyyy too much, but the more I get involved with preplanning and getting estimates in the more I am struggling to keep the cost down.

There ARE ways to be frugal - you can go for a 2nd hand dress but very few brides would want to do that, and even 2nd hand dresses can cost several hundred pounds. I've found a nice place locally whose new dresses start at around £200 so I've pointed my daughter in law to be in their direction but ultimately the dress must be her choice and I'm staying out of that minefield You can hire a hall and cater the reception yourself but boyyyyy is that a lot of work and stress in the build up to the big day and on the day itself and it's not that cheap either once you factor in either hiring or buying the plates and glasses etc. mention the words "wedding reception" when talking to venues and watch the cost sky rocket. Car hire is a total and utter rip off if you even whisper the word wedding - suddenly prices go up by about 20%!

Xeno and his fiance went to a wedding fair and came home utterly depressed, poor DILTB was in tears and Xeno was upset because they couldn't possibly afford some of the stuff they saw and were then made to feel cheap, Xeno was depressed because there were other couples there booking everything in sight and they simply don't have and won't have the money to be able to do the same and he naturally wants his wife to be to have the "wedding of her dreams" which according to the high pressure sale people at the wedding fair meant spending about £20k anything less somehow meant he didn't love her ......

They have discussed on and off going to Vegas to be married - I'm up for that it'll cost about the same but they'd have a honeymoon as well and the rest of us who go would also get a holiday ultimately though it won't happen as DILTB wants to be married in her home church, she's got very personal reasons for wanting it to be there (her mother is buried in the graveyard) and many of her friends and family wouldn't be able to travel to Vegas to be there on the day so, it's very important to her that her family can share in the day & I can totally respect that.

They are both very fiscally responsible, and they absolutely will not consider borrowing to pay for the wedding, obviously we will help out as much as we can but we're not rich and her family is even less well off than we are so the bulk of the cost will fall on them.

[Gob]

Interesting perspective RB!

Hen's wedding outfit came from the Salvos!

We hired this place for the day, and everybody came and spent as much or as little time there with us as they felt right. (They did our catering.)

There was a bar open all day. My mate Wynn played some guitar, we had a DJ for the evening entertainment, followed up by two mates of mine who are "Hard House" rave DJ's, who played us a set later in the evening (I still have the set on CD!)

[Crackpot]

Our wedding cost about $18k most of which went to the reception hall. We saved quite a bit by doing it on a holiday weekend (which worked out for us sine her side of the family had to travel from the other side of the state) all in all we did quite well considering the gong rate for a similar wedding was about $20-25k and is something to this day we still get complements on what a great time it was.