God, global warming and politics

[Gob]

A Republican congressman hoping to chair the powerful House Energy Committee refers to the Bible and God on the issue of global warming.

Representative John Shimkus insists we shouldn't concerned about the planet being destroyed because God promised Noah it wouldn't happen again after the great flood. Speaking before a House Energy Subcommittee on Energy and Environment hearing in March, 2009, Shimkus quoted Chapter 8, Verse 22 of the Book of Genesis.

He said: 'As long as the earth endures, seed time and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, will never cease.

The Illinois Republican continued: 'I believe that is the infallible word of God, and that's the way it is going to be for his creation.
'The earth will end only when God declares its time to be over. Man will not destroy this earth. This earth will not be destroyed by a flood.

He added: 'Today we have about 388 parts per million in the atmosphere. I think in the age of dinosaurs, when we had the most flora and fauna, we were probably at 4,000 parts per million. There is a theological debate that this is a carbon-starved planet — not too much carbon. And the cost of a cap-and-trade on the poor is now being discovered.' The Republican is a vocal opponent to President Obama's American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 - the so-called 'cap-and-trade' Bill, aimed at limiting carbon emissions.

The Bill passed the House of Representatives last year, but has yet to pass the Senate.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z14wCGBpvM

And you let people like this iito politics? I wouldn't let him handle scissors!!

[rubato]

And who was stupid enough to think that having Republicans run things was good?

yrs,
rubato

[tyro]

According to Peter Paul and Mary, it’s a fire, not a flood next time.

Come to think of it, that might have been Bob Dylan who wrote those words.

Perhaps John Shimkus and the faithful should consider the possibility that God is waiting for us to screw it up, and then He will pull the cosmic plug.

Maybe He designed the traps (like planting the tree of knowledge in the garden of Eden and telling the only occupants not to eat from it) and abusing the atmosphere is just another one of those traps.


Let’s face it, we didn’t create the best God from all of the possibilities. We picked the one who agreed with our primeval, half baked take on things.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I noticed the qouted passage didn't mention that man will still be here, only that the earth will still be here. I have no doubt the earth will survive and not be a dead planet. I have my doubts about man though.

[rubato]

Not Bob Dylan.

yrs,
rubato

[Andrew D]

The idea is originally biblical. After the Noachian flood, God promises never again to destroy "the earth" or "all flesh" by flood. (See Genesis 9:8-16.) From various scriptures and also from tradition, Christianity has generally held that when God next gets around around to destroying the earth or all flesh or sinful humanity or whatever, it will be by fire. (See, e.g., II Thessalonians 1:7-8; II Peter 3:7.)

That idea is set forth in the responsory "Libera me". From Wikipedia:

Libera me, Domine, de morte aeterna, in die illa tremenda:
Quando caeli movendi sunt et terra.
Dum veneris judicare saeculum per ignem.
Tremens factus sum ego, et timeo, dum discussio venerit, atque ventura ira.
Quando caeli movendi sunt et terra.
Dies illa, dies irae, calamitatis et miseriae, dies magna et amara valde.
Dum veneris judicare saeculum per ignem.
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine: et lux perpetua luceat eis.

In English:

Deliver me, O Lord, from death eternal on that fearful day,
when the heavens and the earth shall be moved,
when thou shalt come to judge the world by fire.
I am made to tremble, and I fear, till the judgment be upon us, and the coming wrath,
when the heavens and the earth shall be moved.
That day, day of wrath, calamity, and misery, day of great and exceeding bitterness,
when thou shalt come to judge the world by fire.
Rest eternal grant unto them, O Lord: and let light perpetual shine upon them.

The Wikipedia article observes:

In addition to the Gregorian chant in the Roman Gradual, many composers have written settings for the text, including Gabriel Fauré and Maurice Duruflé.

As it happens, back when I was a chorister at Grace Cathedral, I had the privilege of performing both the Faure Requiem and the Durufle Requiem. I remember very little of the Durufle, but I have fond memories of the Faure.

[Gob]

Flood legends pre date the bible.

Sumer
The oldest recorded occurrence of the flood myth dates from roughly 2800 BCE. Called the Eridu Genesis, the fragmentary tale describes a Sumerian priest-king named Ziusudra who builds a boat at the command of a god, Enki, who has warned that the gods plan to destroy life on earth with a flood. The deluge lasts seven days, after which Ziusudra makes a sacrifice to the gods An and Enlil, receives immortality, and sets about repopulating the world. There has been speculation that this particular story, as well as many other flood myths, derives from an actual event — the ancient Sumerian King List mentions a catastrophic flood that occurred in 2900 BCE — but so far there is no ironclad evidence supporting this view.

Babylonia
Aside from the Noah story, probably the best known flood myth derives from the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh, dating from around 2000 BCE. Utnapishtim is warned by an earth god, Ea, that a flood will destroy all life. He builds a 180-foot boat and fills it with pairs of every living species (some versions say the boat contains Utnapishtim’s family and his cattle). Utnapishtim is also granted immortality after surviving the disaster. Another Babylonian myth, the Epic of Atrahasis, dates from around 1640 BCE and is very similar to the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Greece
The Greeks have three known flood myths. The Ogygian flood — named after the mythical king Ogyges of Attica — was told by Plato in his Laws, Book III and was supposed to have occurred 10,000 years before Plato’s time. There is also the flood of the Deucalion, told in The Library by Apollodorus, and the flood of Dardanus, told by Dionysus of Halicarnassus. Apollodorus also writes a version in his Theogony, in which Deucalion, son of Prometheus, escapes a nine-day flood by floating on the waters in a chest.

India
Though it is unknown when the story actually originated, Hindu tradition holds that their flood myth dates from around 3100 BCE, which if true would make the Hindu account the oldest known flood story. In the Indian version, from the Matsya Purana, Manu rescues a fish from a river; the fish grows to enormous size and warns Manu that in seven days a flood will come and wipe out all life. Manu builds a boat and the fish tows him safely to a mountaintop, where he populates the earth using “seeds of life” he has brought along.



Read more at Suite101: Pre-Christian Versions of Noah's Ark: Flood Myths Are Common in Many Ancient Civilizations http://www.suite101.com/content/prechri ... z15DNGnORt

[Andrew D]

True. But is there any non-Judeo-Christian tradition in which God (or whoever) destroys the world by flood, promises not to do so again, and is generally predicted to destroy the world (at some future time) by fire?

[Gob]

Don't know, don't care!

Fucking religuos myths are all the same to me.

Despite my taste in music.

[loCAtek]

Quite a lot AndrewD, 'Great Flood' legends are predominant throughout human mythos.

A common denominator if you will.

[loCAtek]

To add;

The Mexica/Aztec people, while not monotheistic, believed the world had been destroyed before;

Legends of the Five Suns

In the creation myths which were preserved by the Aztec and other Nahua peoples, the central tenet was that there had been four worlds, or "Suns", previous to the present universe. These earlier worlds and their inhabitants had been created, then destroyed by the catastrophic action of leading deity figures. The present world is the fifth sun, and the Aztec saw themselves as "the People of the Sun," whose divine duty is to wage cosmic war in order to provide the sun with his tlaxcaltiliztli ("nourishment"). Without it, the sun would disappear from the heavens. Thus the welfare and the very survival of the universe depends upon the offerings of blood and hearts to the sun.[2]

In the first world, the people were devoured by jaguars.
In the second world, first the people were turned into monkeys and then blow away by a mighty wind.
The third world was destroyed by fire.
The fourth was destroyed by flood.

The current sun, the fifth sun shall live as long as he is fed, but should he die, then the world will be destroyed in cataclysmic earthquakes.

[loCAtek]

In Hindu legends, it is explained that the existence of the world is cyclic; these cycles are many thousands of years long and are called Yugas. One of the primary gods of Hinduism is Vishnu, the preserver and protector of creation. It was he who took the form of a giant fish in the previously mentioned flood legend.

When this current age, the Kali Yuga ends, Vishnu will take the form of Kalki, to wage a final battle with evil. This battle will result in the fiery destruction of the world and a new age, Satya Yuga, will begin.

The Puranas speak of the ten avatars of Vishnu. These incarnations detail the divine help given by Vishnu during various stages of human evolution, by appearing on earth in different forms. The ten most famous incarnations of Vishnu are collectively known as the `Dasavatara.` The Bhagavad Gita mentions their purpose to demonstrate that divinity re-establishes Dharma or righteousness and destroys injustice from time to time, by appearing on earth in various incarnations. This list is included in the Garuda Purana and denotes those avatars most prominent in terms of their influence on human society.

The majority of avatars in this list of ten are categorised as `lila-avatars` and the first four are said to have appeared in the Satya Yuga. The next three avatars appeared in the Treta Yuga, the eighth incarnation in the Dwapara Yuga and the ninth in the Kali Yuga. The tenth is predicted to appear at the end of the Kali Yuga in some 427,000 years time. The ten avataras are Matsya (fish), Kurma (tortoise), Varaaha (boar), Narasimha (the man lion), Vaamana (the dwarf), Parasurama (the angry man), Rama (the perfect human), Balarama and Krishna (the divine statesman). The 10th avatar, which is yet to appear, is Kalki.

Matsya1. Matsya: This was the form of the fish, taken up by Vishnu during a deluge that submerged the earth. Matsya is generally represented as a four-armed figure with the upper torso of a man and the lower of a fish. According to a legend, Vishnu commanded a rishi to gather together samples of all species and wait in a boat. The gigantic golden fish then dragged the boat through the deluge and then enabled Brahma to start the act of creation all over again.

Koorma2. Koorma: In this incarnation, Lord Vishnu took the form of a tortoise. According to this legend, the Gods & Demons united in their efforts to churn the celestial ocean of milk, in the quest of Amrit (the nectar of life and immortality). This mammoth task was carried out with the Mandara Mount as the churning stick and the mythological snake Vasuki as the rope. Thus, Lord Vishnu incarnated himself as the Kurma (the tortoise) in order to support the mount Mandara, which started sinking during the churning of the ocean. Thus, the Kurma sat on the bottom of the ocean with a mountain, being placed on his back by the other gods so that the gods & demons could churn the sea and find the ancient treasures of the Vedic people.

Varaha3. Varaha: Varaha is the third avatar of Vishnu, who appeared in order to defeat the demon Hiranyaksha. Varaha is depicted in art as either purely animal or as having a boar`s head on a man`s body. In the latter form he has four arms, two of which hold the wheel and conch-shell while the other two hold a mace, sword or lotus or make a gesture of blessing. The Earth is held between the boar`s tusks.

Since, the demon had taken the earth and carried it to the bottom of the cosmic ocean, the Lord killed the demon and lifted the earth out of the flood waters in which it had been submerged. He lifted the Bhoomi Devi (Earth), between his tusks and restored it to its place in the universe. This may be a symbolic representation of the resurrection of the world from the deluge of sin by the power of the Supreme Being and the establishment of a new cosmic cycle. Later, Vishnu married Bhoomi Devi in this avatar.

Narsimha4. Narsimha: A combination of man and lion, Narasimha represents another form of Vishnu. He is in the form of half-man / half-lion, having a human torso and lower body, but with a lion-like face and claws. When Prahlada, the great devotee of Vishnu was being severely tortured by his father, the demon Hiranyakasipu, Vishnu appeared as Narasimha (man-lion) emerging out of the pillar shown by Hiranyakasipu and killed him. Thus, in this avatar, Vishnu demonstrated his omnipresence in a powerful way. Narsimha is especially the embodiment of valour, which is a divine attribute and hence worshipped by rulers and warriors.

5. Vamana: The next incarnation of Vishnu is Vamana (the dwarf). This is his fifth Avatara and the first incarnation of the Second Age, or Treta Yuga. Also he is the first Avatar of Vishnu, which appears with a completely human form, though it was that of a dwarf Brahmin. He is also sometimes known as Upendra. He took this form to destroy the demon Bali. Bali, a demon, achieved supernatural power by asceticism and he had snatched Indra`s authority over the heavens by his power.

VamanaTo protect the world, Vishnu appeared before him in the form of Vamana, carrying a wooden umbrella during a sacrifice where the latter was distributing gifts of the seeker`s choice, to show his power of wealth. Here, Vamana requested three steps of land for him to live in. Bali then granted Vishnu as much land as he could cover in three steps, much against the warning given by his Guru Sukracharya.

All of a sudden he assumed the massive form of Trivikrama, dominating the universe; with his first foot he covered the earth, with the second the heavens. When there was no room for the third, Bali, who never went back on his word offered his head and with the third, he pushed down Bali to the pathala (netherworld) and gave him immortality for his benevolence. Hence he is also known as Trivikrama, one who encompassed the world with three big steps.

Parasurama6. Parasurama: Vishnu then took up the form of Parasurama, who was the sixth Avatara born as the son of the sage-couple, Jamadagni and Renuka. This avatar was to quell the arrogance of the Kshatriya rulers who harmed the sages and unprotected mortals. He exterminated the tyrannical among the Kshatriyas led by Kartavirya, who were oppressing the people.

7. Rama: In Hinduism, he is considered to be the Seventh Avatar of Vishnu and an important manifestation of God. Rama or Ram was also referred as Ramachandra and Shri Ramahonorifically as Sri Rama, is a legendary/historical king of ancient India. Vishnu came in the form of Rama to rescue the world from the demon, Ravana.

Ram`s purpose was to ensure that justice and peace (dharma) ruled. He is the hero of the epic Ramayana, and he is regarded as an example of morality and virtue. Rama is shown with a bow in his hand, symbolizing his strength, because he won the hand of his wife, Sita, using a bow in a contest. He is usually depicted with his brother Lakshmana, his wife Sita, and Hanuman.

Krishna8. Lord Krishna: Lord Krishna, or Sri Krishna, as fondly known, is the ninth incarnation of Lord Vishnu and the most popular of all his incarnations. Krishna is a deity worshipped across many traditions of Hinduism. He is usually depicted as a young cowherd boy playing a flute or a youthful prince giving philosophical direction. He was the charioteer of Arjuna in the battle of Kurukshetra in Mahabharata.

He is the great expounder of the `song celestial`, the Bhagvad Gita. Krishna and the stories associated with him appear across a broad spectrum of Hindu philosophical and theological traditions. Though they sometimes differ in details reflecting the concerns of a particular tradition, all shares some core features. These include a divine incarnation, a pastoral childhood and youth, and life as a heroic warrior and teacher.

Buddha9. Buddha: Gautama Buddha is mentioned as an Avatar of Vishnu in the Puranic texts of Hinduism. In the Bhagavata Purana, he is twenty-fourth of twenty-five avatars, prefiguring a forthcoming final incarnation. Thus, Lord Vishnu took up the avatar of Buddha, to purify Hinduism of excessive ritualism. Lord Buddha preached detachment, and the middle path consisting of eight fold virtues of right views, right resolve, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right meditation.

Kalki10. Kalki: The Kalki Avatar is the only avatar of Vishnu that is set in the future. It is believed that at the end of the present age (Kali Yug), there will be a deluge when Kalki - the tenth and the last avatar of Vishnu, will ride forth on a horse to redeem humankind and re-establish righteousness. Riding on the back of a white horse, with a drawn sword, he will destroy the enemies of Dharma and re-establish it in all its glory. The name Kalki is often a metaphor for "Eternity" or "Time".