Bernie's Religion

[BoSoxGal]

On Tuesday, just four days before South Carolina’s Democratic primary, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton took questions from voters at a lively CNN Town Hall in the newly de-battle flagged state capital of Columbia. Amid all the talk about Wall Street, racism, Donald Trump, and the GOP’s obstructionism, Bernie Sanders was asked about his “spirituality.” That, of course, was meant to be a trap, a litmus test. Americans like their presidents Christian. In fact, we haven’t had a non-Christian president since Thomas Jefferson (Abraham Lincoln was raised Christian and kept quiet about his un-churched status), let alone a not-particularly religious Jew.

Here was Bernie Sanders’ stunning reply:

“Every great religion in the world — Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism — essentially comes down to: ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’ And what I have believed in my whole life — I believed it when I was a 22-year-old kid getting arrested in Chicago fighting segregation — I’ve believed it in my whole life.” And then, Bernie Sanders even appeared to get a little choked up as he declared: “That we are in this together — not just, not words. The truth is at some level when you hurt, when your children hurt, I hurt. I hurt. And when my kids hurt, you hurt. And it’s very easy to turn our backs on kids who are hungry, or veterans who are sleeping out on the street, and we can develop a psyche, a psychology which is ‘I don’t have to worry about them; all I’m gonna worry about is myself; I need to make another 5 billion dollars.’ But I believe that what human nature is about is that everybody in this room impacts everybody else in all kinds of ways that we can’t even understand. It’s beyond intellect. It’s a spiritual, emotional thing. So I believe that when we do the right thing, when we try to treat people with respect and dignity, when we say that that child who is hungry is my child … I think we are more human when we do that, than when we say ‘hey, this whole world , I need more and more, I don’t care about anyone else.’ That’s my religion. That’s what I believe in. And I think most people around the world, whatever their religion, their color — share that belief. That we are in it together as human beings. And it becomes more and more practical. If we destroy the planet because we don’t deal with climate change … Trust me, we are all in it together, and … That is my spirituality."

[Burning Petard]

Thank you, Gal, for the post above. The religious tradition which I grew up in asserted that it was of little import what you believe. The thing that mattered was what you did. Bernie above reflects the best of the Judeo-Christian spirituality.

[BoSoxGal]

[MajGenl.Meade]

Thank you, Gal, for the post above. The religious tradition which I grew up in asserted that it was of little import what you believe. The thing that mattered was what you did. Bernie above reflects the best of the Judeo-Christian spirituality.

interesting. What non-Christian tradition was that that thought belief was of small importance?

[Lord Jim]

Sorry, but I don't see a whole lot of "spirituality" in that...

A lot of empty platitudes, and maybe a little expression of some of his values, but not any spirituality...

He seems to have made a "religion" out of his political ideology....

[Big RR]

I don't know Jim, I see a lot of "Love thy neighbor as thyself" there; a sentiment apparently shared by Jesus in that it was one of the two great commandments on which the rest of the law and the prophets depend. And if it is put into action, it is much more than empty platitudes.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I think LJ's point may be that (of key importance as it is) it's not spirituality as the original questioner intended. Jesus pointed out that the first command is to love the Lord, your God. That's the first one = the one that be primary to the second. Without the first, the second is no more difficult for the unbeliever as it is for the believer.

I know many non-Christians who do their best to love their neighbor as themselves - not a few are better at unselfishness than I am. In fact, loving one's neighbor is belief - a person believes that's right or correct or proper. If you don't believe that then loving doesn't happen.

But that kind of belief is not "spirituality". Bernie found a rather clever way to avoid saying "atheist".

[Lord Jim]

But that kind of belief is not "spirituality". Bernie found a rather clever way to avoid saying "atheist".

That's also my conclusion...

Sanders gave a laundry list of his "rules to live by"; he outlined his code of ethics...(and it's a perfectly lovely code of ethics, I imagine most people would agree with most of what he said...though people would interpret what is needed to meet the requirements of that code in a wide variety of different ways. Agreeing with a set of general values and a set of specific policies are two very different things )

But a code of ethics is not the same thing as spirituality...

Sanders made a typical politician move; he didn't want to answer the question that was asked, so he decided to talk about something else...

[Big RR]

Well if we define "spirituality" as exclusively being somehow manifesting a belief in god or a higher power, then you are right, Meade and Jim. However, I personally think spirituality transcends belief and can be manifested in actions as well. If one acts not in one's self interest, but in the broader interest of others, then one manifests a spirituality reflected in their decision to not act solely in their self interest. and IMHO that is what Bernie is referring to.

One need not refer t a supernatural belief to be spiritual; I think what Bernie is saying is that we are all bonded together by a common bond (for want of a better word, perhaps as spirit?) which prompts us to reach out from our selfish cocoon and embrace the others, recognizing "The truth is at some level when you hurt, when your children hurt, I hurt. I hurt. And when my kids hurt, you hurt."

the prophet Micah sums this up best by saying--"and what does the lord require of you but to do justice and to love kindness?" and this is what Bernie expresses. He adds "and to walk humbly with your god", and IMHO this is what Bernie is embracing--walking the path that god walks, embracing the poor and unfortunate and caring for them as god would have us do. IMHO, that is spirituality, and one need not express a belief in a supernatural god to have it.

[Lord Jim]

Well, Big RR, the question that he was specifically asked was regarding "a belief in god or a higher power," and nowhere in his "answer", will you find an actual answer to that question...

If he had wanted to answer the question but then go on to expound on his ethical code, the first sentence of his response should have read like this:

"No I don't,[that would be the actual answer to the question] but here's what I do believe..."

There's no way around the fact that Sanders dodged the question.

[Big RR]

OK, and if that's what was asked, then I understand your point. The text says he was asked about his "spirituality" which, as I have stated, I think is broader than professing a belief in god or not.

[Sue U]

Jim:

Would you suggest that Jainism and Buddhism are not "spiritual"? How about the Hindu sects that reject divinity? Isn't Humanism a nontheistic spirituality?

I don't think Bernie "dodged the question." Although the set-up asked, in part, "is there a higher power, is there a higher intelligence," the question he was actually asked was, "What do you believe in?"

[Crackpot]

You mean to say that Bernie ducks and evades questions that could hurt him politically? I'm shocked!

[Sue U]

Q: You said your spirituality is that we are all in this together. Explain to people what, in your head and in your heart, motivates that togetherness. Is there a higher power, is there a higher intelligence? What do you believe in?

A: This is what I believe.

Seems pretty direct to me.

[Big RR]

You raise an interesting point Sue, even if he wanted to answer the question re a higher power/intelligence directly, it would be hard to do so without understanding what the questioner means by those terms. A higher power/intelligence may be present in an individual god, or it may be present as an idea or concept. Bernie may well think that his golden rule represents a higher power because it is something we are somehow expected (by what? who knows?) to do. Yes it is not embodied in an individual supernatural god, but then that question was not asked.

It would kind of be like asking a non Buddhist whether (s)he believes in karma; it would depend entirely on how karma is defined--is it that persons eventually get their just desserts due to the natural order of things or because some force causes it or something entirely different? That's the problem--it's easier to explain what you believe than to second guess the questioner, and it tells the listener much more as well.

does Bernie believe in a personal supernatural higher power--I don't know, but he hasn't said he does in describing his beliefs. that being said, I do think his answer shows he believes in doing at least some of what a Christian god would want him to do, as set forth in the NT.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Not keen to divert this into a discussion about meanings, God etc. Back to Bernie. I don't blame him for evading the question. What Sue describes as the "set up" so she can excuse his answer because she can define the question as the final few words (What do you believe?) is in fact the most important part of the question. What is the motivation behind the idea that we are all in this together; is there a higher power... is the subject of the final uestion; i.e. what do you believe (about that)?

The non-sequiturishness of his reply would be more obvious if he had been asked a question about Wall Street - what do you believe? And he'd replied, I believe for every drop of rain a flower grows. I doubt he'd have any trouble actually answering the question

Asking each candidate, "Do you believe in God?" is rather obnoxious, in my opinion. As Big RR emphasizes, what God? With the current mob, each one would say "Yes" in more or less mealy-mouthed phrases... except for Bernie. Seems odd but I give him credit because he's honest enough to obfuscate.

[Big RR]

Meade--I agree with most of your last paragraph, but the point I wanted to make is that people often seek simple answers to complex questions, seeking to slap a label on someone without understanding anything about them. Bernie (at least as I understand his answer) tried to say what he believes and refused to give people a simple label they could pin on him. You may call it obfuscation, I think it is honesty--and certainly a lot more honesty than some of the politicians who wear their faith on their sleeves and then refuse to live it.

[RayThom]

... But that kind of belief is not "spirituality". Bernie found a rather clever way to avoid saying "atheist".

I'm with Bernie. Believe what you want but I feel strongly that secular humanism is the best way to go. Less arguments, less destruction, less war, less guilt. The only drawback is having to put up with pious, no-nothings, who will argue until they are blue-in-the-face that they know exactly what lies beyond.

I'm going to let our savior, Jesus Christ, sort it all out at the Resurrection.

God is a Concept by which we measure our pain. AMEN.

[Lord Jim]

What Sue describes as the "set up" so she can excuse his answer because she can define the question as the final few words (What do you believe?) is in fact the most important part of the question. What is the motivation behind the idea that we are all in this together; is there a higher power... is the subject of the final uestion; i.e. what do you believe (about that)?

That is exactly the way it looks to me.

You mean to say that Bernie ducks and evades questions that could hurt him politically? I'm shocked!

It's not really shocking to me to see Sanders behaving like a typical politician...

Which is precisely what he did.

[Burning Petard]

Well Gen'l, I have decided to reply to your question about 'what non-Christian. . . '

The officially recognized founder of this tradition answered the question of 'what do you believe?' from a reporter for the Chicago Tribune with a two word answer: All Truth. For most of our history we have been classed by the traditional Christian groups as non-Christian or even anti Christian. We don't feel that is accurate. We assert we are reactionaries, back to the source, followers of Jesus. We even assert we are not a Church. Again, we have no test of faith for membership, no list of beliefs members should confirm. Rather we find our central core in action, in verbs. We claim the essence of Jesus' teachings is in the verbs he used, Love God and your neighbor, feed the hungry. We assert the important thing for our group is to implement Jesus mission as he explained it in his sermon to his family and old friends where he grew up.

The requirement for membership is again, action, not assenting to a list of beliefs. The official wording is: All those who humble themselves before God and desire to be baptized and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits, and witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins, and are willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ, have a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into his church.

Note the word church is used here in two places, but the organization officially, with the consent of the membership, declared in 2001 that it is not a church, but a community. This requirement for membership above lists things that an individual must do to be part of the organization.

We do not assert that we are the 'true' or only followers of Jesus; rather that there are many organizations doing the will of God in the world, but we have particular and peculiar task given to us by God to contribute to the establishment of the Kingdom of God on Earth. The organization exists to DO. Individual beliefs are a matter of personal conscience and a matter of importance only to the individual and their relationship with God. There is consensus for general agreement in triune Godhead with a divine Jesus of orthodox Christianity, but there are many active members and leaders who do not agree and might even fit general definitions for agnostic or atheist in their beliefs.