Heard these ideas somewhere before...

All things philosophical, related to belief and / or religions of any and all sorts.
Personal philosophy welcomed.
Grim Reaper
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:21 pm

Re: Heard these ideas somewhere before...

Post by Grim Reaper »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:Almost all societies at the time of writing of the OT (and into NT times for that matter) featured various forms of slavery. It was not a feature peculiar to the Jewish state nor yet to Greeks and Romans. The Bible did not "allow" for it - it records the fact of it. The Bible also records that only wooden boats with sails and/or oars were used for travel to foreign lands back then - I don't see anyone suggesting we ban iron ships and aeroplanes either. Your argument is without significance as is the facile mention of left-handedness (which is not a sin).
Left-handedness is as much a sin as homosexuality. I didn't get to choose my left/right hand orientation when I was born, yet there are no laws against it like there are against homosexuality.

And the Bible never disallows slavery, in fact it sets forth many rules for the purchase and treatment of slaves. That goes beyond merely 'observing'.

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33646
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: Heard these ideas somewhere before...

Post by Gob »

The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)



The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?


The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)



So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)



You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)


Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)



In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

User avatar
Scooter
Posts: 17122
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Heard these ideas somewhere before...

Post by Scooter »

Those are the sorts of passages that Christians would prefer to forget, or else they insist must be read "in their context". Sure, an unbroken litany of condoning slavery from one end of the Bible to the other must be read "in context", but a couple of verses about men lying with men as with a woman, or abusers of themselves with mankind, and we're expected to accept without question that this represents some unequivocal condemnation of homosexuality for all time.

Self-serving pharasaical hypocritical whitewashed sepulchres.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose

"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater

rubato
Posts: 14245
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Heard these ideas somewhere before...

Post by rubato »

40 years from now the christian community will be interpreting the passages currently used to excuse persecution of gays the way they now interpret the far greater passages supporting chattel slavery and lying about their ancestors (like MGM) who persecuted homosexuals needlessly.

Without revisionism Christianity would have been vomited out of western civilization as too repellant to sustain a hundred years ago. The Nazis loved you for your persecution of Jews and Gays.

And demagogues love you today for your ready hatreds.

yrs,
rubato

User avatar
dales
Posts: 10922
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:13 am
Location: SF Bay Area - NORTH California - USA

Re: Heard these ideas somewhere before...

Post by dales »

rube, don't forget....






































GOD LOVES YOU :ok

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
rubato

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33646
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: Heard these ideas somewhere before...

Post by Gob »

Image
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Post Reply