By NILS KONGSHAUG
June 17, 2012
The Voss Lighting Company of Lincoln, Neb., doesn't hide its religious light under a barrel.
"Our biblical mission," an online statement reads, "is to 'sell' our lighting products so that we may 'tell' everyone we can about God's soul-saving, life transforming gospel message..."
Perfectly legal, says Patrick Holman, an attorney with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
"The Commission has no problem with a corporation having religious values," he says.
But Holman does have a problem with a corporation using religious values to make hiring decisions.
Holman and the EEOC are representing an Oklahoma man, Edward Wolfe, who says he was denied a job at Voss because he wasn't Christian enough.
"It's unique," Holman says. "I haven't seen anything like it since I've been here."
Wolfe says he applied for a job as Operations Supervisor at Voss's Tulsa, Oklahoma store.
In the complaint filed against Voss by the EEOC, Wolfe says he saw the position on a church website. His first interview went well, but in a second interview with the branch manager, he told lawyers, he was questioned about his religious practices and beliefs.
According to the complaint, the manager asked Wolfe "to identify every church he has attended over the past several years; where and when [he] was 'saved' and the circumstances that led up to it."
In the interview, Wolfe claims he was told most employees at Voss were Southern Baptist, but employees could go to any church, as long as they were "born again."
The complaint claims the manager asked Wolfe if he would "have a problem" coming to work early, without pay, to attend Bible study.
Wolfe, a single parent who says he cannot attend church on Sundays, told lawyers the branch manager was "agitated" at his answers.
He didn't get the job.
The suit is filed under Title VII, part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which makes it illegal to discriminate in hiring on the basis of religion.
In a statement, the company denies Wolfe was turned down for the job "as a consequence of his religious beliefs." Vice president and general manager Steve Sanderson writes, "The individual hired by Voss had more lighting product experience and was more qualified.".....and he's probably "more saved", too.
You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
http://abcnews.go.com/US/christian-job- ... d=16585520
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
The correct expression is to "hide your light under a bushel", not "barrel".
bush·el
noun
1. a unit of dry measure containing 4 pecks, equivalent in the U.S. (and formerly in England) to 2150.42 cubic inches or 35.24 liters (Winchester bushel), and in Great Britain to 2219.36 cubic inches or 36.38 liters (Imperial bushel). Abbreviation: bu., bush.
2. a container of this capacity.
3. a unit of weight equal to the weight of a bushel of a given commodity.
4. a large, unspecified amount or number: a bushel of kisses.
Sorry Dales, I know I'm a pedant."No one after lighting a lamp puts it under the bushel basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven."
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
Well I can outpedant you any day.... this is a figure of speech that Jesus used on more than one occasion in various ways (Matthew has three such occasions).
If you rely on Luke 11:33 the word is neither bushel nor basket nor barrel. It is κρυπτην (kroop-tay) - a 'hidden place' or 'cellar'.
Now Matthew 5:15 gives μοδιον (modios) translated "bushel" referring to a measure of corn or grain. Philips gives it as more likely to be an earthenware pot.
In Luke 8:16 Jesus gave a couple of different figures, asking if a wise person puts a light under a σκευει (skeuos or 'vessel') or under a couch, bed or table (κλινης - kline) rather than upon the stand.
So while the headliner writer probably did misremember "barrel" rather than "bushel" or basket, he has not altered the sense of the symbol at all. If Jesus used the metaphor more than one way in more than one discourse or three he may well have chosen to say 'barrel' - if he was talking to wine merchants for example
Meade
If you rely on Luke 11:33 the word is neither bushel nor basket nor barrel. It is κρυπτην (kroop-tay) - a 'hidden place' or 'cellar'.
Now Matthew 5:15 gives μοδιον (modios) translated "bushel" referring to a measure of corn or grain. Philips gives it as more likely to be an earthenware pot.
In Luke 8:16 Jesus gave a couple of different figures, asking if a wise person puts a light under a σκευει (skeuos or 'vessel') or under a couch, bed or table (κλινης - kline) rather than upon the stand.
So while the headliner writer probably did misremember "barrel" rather than "bushel" or basket, he has not altered the sense of the symbol at all. If Jesus used the metaphor more than one way in more than one discourse or three he may well have chosen to say 'barrel' - if he was talking to wine merchants for example
Meade
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
That's right Dales, if you misquote the Bible ol' God Boy Gob will be on you in a flash!
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
Local Tangent: A "Christian" softball league in nearby Zelienople, PA (made up of teams from local churches) declined the request of a local Mormon temple to field a team.
Not "Christian" (enough), one would suppose.
While I agree theologically, I think it was stupid and unchristian to turn them down. They are taking a lot of heat about it, and I suspect the decision will shortly be reversed - provided the Saints still want to play with them.
Not "Christian" (enough), one would suppose.
While I agree theologically, I think it was stupid and unchristian to turn them down. They are taking a lot of heat about it, and I suspect the decision will shortly be reversed - provided the Saints still want to play with them.
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
"Christians" need someone they can all "hate on" more than they need most things.dgs49 wrote:Local Tangent: A "Christian" softball league in nearby Zelienople, PA (made up of teams from local churches) declined the request of a local Mormon temple to field a team.
Not "Christian" (enough), one would suppose.
While I agree theologically, I think it was stupid and unchristian to turn them down. They are taking a lot of heat about it, and I suspect the decision will shortly be reversed - provided the Saints still want to play with them.
The fact I Looooove is that Mormons are better Christians than almost all Christians (except Amish and a few others).
yrs,
rubato
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
rube,I thought you were more enlightened than to make ridiculous generalizations about large groups of people. How many Mormons do you know personally? How much do you know about their "christian" (small 'c') attitudes and behaviors? What does "christian" mean to you?
You will be greatly disappointed to know that the Christian church league in Zelienople does not include a team for St Gregory's, the only Catholic church in town.
You will be greatly disappointed to know that the Christian church league in Zelienople does not include a team for St Gregory's, the only Catholic church in town.
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
I have to agree' mormons can be as judgmental and as arbitrary as any other religious (or nonreligious for that matter group). Go to Temple Square and try to get access to the Temple and you'll see you are barred (I don't ever think I've been prohibited form entering any (other) "christian" church); look at the political influence the LDS church has in Utah; see how the LDS church frowns on/discourages/prohibits "mixed" marriages. Fully within their rights, but hardly making them paragons of tolerance and acceptance. It's just what happens when groups of people choose to band together.
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
I have known a lot of Mormons personally. They are no more sectarian than any other christian cult (like the RCs) but on the whole they don't drink, don't smoke, support their church and their children (which Catholics have never done). And they have much lower rates of crime than all of the Italian Catholic and Irish Catholic neighborhoods in all of the NE.dgs49 wrote:rube,I thought you were more enlightened than to make ridiculous generalizations about large groups of people. How many Mormons do you know personally? How much do you know about their "christian" (small 'c') attitudes and behaviors? What does "christian" mean to you?
You will be greatly disappointed to know that the Christian church league in Zelienople does not include a team for St Gregory's, the only Catholic church in town.
You're really nasty compared to them.
yrs,
rubato
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
"...support their children (which Catholics have never done)..."? We try not to kill them in the womb. Does that not count for anything?
P.S. I don't believe you about knowing a lot of Mormons, but whatever. It is certainly true that they generally don't smoke or drink alcohol, and other than the occasional massacre they are pretty law abiding. But that is quantitative. Being "better Christians" is hogwash.
P.S. I don't believe you about knowing a lot of Mormons, but whatever. It is certainly true that they generally don't smoke or drink alcohol, and other than the occasional massacre they are pretty law abiding. But that is quantitative. Being "better Christians" is hogwash.
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
Historic: SBC in New Orleans elects 1st Black president, approves ‘Great Commission Baptists’
Jun 27, 2012
By STAFF
Related Coverage:
2012 SBC Annual Meeting, New Orleans
NEW ORLEANS (BP)—In one of the most historic meetings in the Southern Baptist Convention’s 167-year history, messengers June 19-20 elected the body’s first African American presidentand voted to keep the convention’s name while approving a descriptor, “Great Commission Baptists,” for those churches that wish to use it.
The momentous occasion in New Orleans brought media from across the nation to see the election of Fred Luter, a descendent of slaves who now is the president of a convention whose founders, in 1845, defended slavery.
The convention officially repented of its racist past at the 1995 meeting, and has seen the percentage of non-white churches grow, from 5 percent of the SBC in 1990 to 19 percent in 2010. Last year, messengers approved a landmark report encouraging ethnic diversity in committee appointments.
Luter, who was unopposed and received a lengthy standing ovation from messengers when elected, told media at a news conference that he sees his election as being a turning point for blacks and other ethnic groups.
EMOTIONAL MOMENT Fred Luter Jr., pastor of Franklin Avenue Baptist Church in New Orleans, wipes tears from his eyes after more than 8,000 Southern Baptist Convention messengers elected him to be the first African American president June 19 during the two-day SBC annual meeting at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center in New Orleans. BP photo by Kent Harville
“Here is a convention that has been talking this racial reconciliation thing and now they’re putting their money where their mouth is,” said Luter, pastor of New Orleans’ Franklin Avenue Baptist Church, whose building was flooded after Hurricane Katrina but has been rebuilt into a mega-church amid the city’s much-reduced population.
Luter called his election “a genuine, authentic move by this convention that says our doors are open.” He also said he hopes to see minorities promoted to other positions within the convention, “and I’ll be a cheerleader promoting that.”
About 7,900 registered messengers—with a preliminary 507 from Florida—attended the annual meeting, and nearly every one of them—plus family members and several dozen media representatives—were in a packed convention hall when Luter was elected. New Orleans pastor David Crosby nominated Luter, and recording secretary John Yeats cast the convention’s official ballot.
“It is my high honor to cast this historic ballot of the convention for Dr. Fred Luter as president of the Southern Baptist Convention,” Yeats said before adding, “Hallelujah!”
Yeats’ expression seemed appropriate for a historic day, and messengers responded with an emotional 70-second standing ovation. With cameras flashing as Luter walked to the podium, he pointed heavenward and, while wiping away tears, said simply, “To God be the glory for the things that He has done.” Outgoing SBC President Bryant Wright then put his arm around Luter and prayed for him.
Luter’s election came with a historical coincidence: He was elected on June 19, or “Juneteenth,” a yearly date in which many African Americans celebrate the emancipation of slaves. His election also came as Americans commemorate the 150th anniversary of the Civil War.
“This is not just an Anglo convention,” Luther told media members. “... I’m Exhibit A that this convention is serious about saying that our doors are open to everyone. I hope to be a spokesperson to that, because let’s face it: There are some African Americans, maybe Asians or Hispanics who for years felt that they were not welcome in the Southern Baptist Convention. That’s not the case anymore.”
Two days prior to Luter’s election, several hundred Southern Baptist messengers visiting New Orleans—most of them white—attended Luter’s church, wanting to see him and the congregation he had helped rebuild. At the close of the second service, Luter called on Jimmy Draper, former president of LifeWay Christian
Resources, to pray. Prior to his prayer Draper addressed Franklin Avenue church members, referencing Luter’s pending election and telling them to applause, “This is not tokenism. ... We’re electing a great leader who happens to be black.”
Jun 27, 2012
By STAFF
Related Coverage:
2012 SBC Annual Meeting, New Orleans
NEW ORLEANS (BP)—In one of the most historic meetings in the Southern Baptist Convention’s 167-year history, messengers June 19-20 elected the body’s first African American presidentand voted to keep the convention’s name while approving a descriptor, “Great Commission Baptists,” for those churches that wish to use it.
The momentous occasion in New Orleans brought media from across the nation to see the election of Fred Luter, a descendent of slaves who now is the president of a convention whose founders, in 1845, defended slavery.
The convention officially repented of its racist past at the 1995 meeting, and has seen the percentage of non-white churches grow, from 5 percent of the SBC in 1990 to 19 percent in 2010. Last year, messengers approved a landmark report encouraging ethnic diversity in committee appointments.
Luter, who was unopposed and received a lengthy standing ovation from messengers when elected, told media at a news conference that he sees his election as being a turning point for blacks and other ethnic groups.
EMOTIONAL MOMENT Fred Luter Jr., pastor of Franklin Avenue Baptist Church in New Orleans, wipes tears from his eyes after more than 8,000 Southern Baptist Convention messengers elected him to be the first African American president June 19 during the two-day SBC annual meeting at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center in New Orleans. BP photo by Kent Harville
“Here is a convention that has been talking this racial reconciliation thing and now they’re putting their money where their mouth is,” said Luter, pastor of New Orleans’ Franklin Avenue Baptist Church, whose building was flooded after Hurricane Katrina but has been rebuilt into a mega-church amid the city’s much-reduced population.
Luter called his election “a genuine, authentic move by this convention that says our doors are open.” He also said he hopes to see minorities promoted to other positions within the convention, “and I’ll be a cheerleader promoting that.”
About 7,900 registered messengers—with a preliminary 507 from Florida—attended the annual meeting, and nearly every one of them—plus family members and several dozen media representatives—were in a packed convention hall when Luter was elected. New Orleans pastor David Crosby nominated Luter, and recording secretary John Yeats cast the convention’s official ballot.
“It is my high honor to cast this historic ballot of the convention for Dr. Fred Luter as president of the Southern Baptist Convention,” Yeats said before adding, “Hallelujah!”
Yeats’ expression seemed appropriate for a historic day, and messengers responded with an emotional 70-second standing ovation. With cameras flashing as Luter walked to the podium, he pointed heavenward and, while wiping away tears, said simply, “To God be the glory for the things that He has done.” Outgoing SBC President Bryant Wright then put his arm around Luter and prayed for him.
Luter’s election came with a historical coincidence: He was elected on June 19, or “Juneteenth,” a yearly date in which many African Americans celebrate the emancipation of slaves. His election also came as Americans commemorate the 150th anniversary of the Civil War.
“This is not just an Anglo convention,” Luther told media members. “... I’m Exhibit A that this convention is serious about saying that our doors are open to everyone. I hope to be a spokesperson to that, because let’s face it: There are some African Americans, maybe Asians or Hispanics who for years felt that they were not welcome in the Southern Baptist Convention. That’s not the case anymore.”
Two days prior to Luter’s election, several hundred Southern Baptist messengers visiting New Orleans—most of them white—attended Luter’s church, wanting to see him and the congregation he had helped rebuild. At the close of the second service, Luter called on Jimmy Draper, former president of LifeWay Christian
Resources, to pray. Prior to his prayer Draper addressed Franklin Avenue church members, referencing Luter’s pending election and telling them to applause, “This is not tokenism. ... We’re electing a great leader who happens to be black.”
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
Any connection with this thread?
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
Only to you.dgs49 wrote:"...support their children (which Catholics have never done)..."? We try not to kill them in the womb. Does that not count for anything?
P.S. I don't believe you about knowing a lot of Mormons, but whatever. It is certainly true that they generally don't smoke or drink alcohol, and other than the occasional massacre they are pretty law abiding. But that is quantitative. Being "better Christians" is hogwash.
RC's, if you are Christians at all, which is debate able, are really nasty people. High poverty. High teen pregnancy. High divorce rates. Not anything I would wish on a relative.
Mormonism is quite common in the western U.S.
yrs,
rubato
Re: You Ain't "Christian Enough" For US, Son
Well…….ah………are we Christian enough for you? On the other hand you do have a point; I will try to start my on thread.dgs49 wrote:Any connection with this thread?
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.