This is not to say children do not have active imaginations. The studies indicate that at 7 or so, they begin to think about what their beliefs taught by their families and societies really mean to them. At they age they will be to accept it or go on to question it.
Big RR wrote:Lo--the problem with testimony like this is that people only report what they recall; if they are spiritually inclined they will report it from that perspective, if not they'll report it with a good deal of skepticism. It's like having someone watch a good magician and then discussing how the effect might have been done. Even though many people have seen the effect performed, they will insist that the magician couldn't have done it that way (especially if the explanation is simple) because they wouldn't want to admit that they're that easily deluded.
Saying someone resembled a family member is quite subject to the same sort of bias--look how much people will argue who a newborn ;ooks just like--even if they are looking at the wrong newborn. People see what they want and remember what suits their version of the events.
That's true, BigRR, as well as this is just one form of NDE. Like @W mentioned, there are other experiences people have, my link lists a few different ones. So, thread is not to say that this is what one WILL experience, as an afterlife. Just a possible one, I believe your faith or lack of it determines what you might experience. It would be interesting to discuss other experiences too.
LJ had a near death experience once. Then he turned off "Songs from a Room"
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
This is not to say children do not have active imaginations. The studies indicate that at 7 or so, they begin to think about what their beliefs taught by their families and societies really mean to them. At they age they will be to accept it or go on to question it.
But that's not what you stated Lo. You stated quite clearly that:
Well, studies indicate children aren't indoctrinated, or inclined to believe in the supernatural till about seven.
I call absolute bullshit on this one and will do until I see a study which actually states anything even approximating your statement. It's just not true!
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
Jesus Camp follows several young children as they prepare to attend a summer camp where the kids will get their daily dose of evangelical Christianity. Becky Fischer works at the camp, which is named Kids on Fire. Through interviews with Fischer, the children, and others, Jesus Camp illustrates the unswerving belief of the faithful. A housewife and homeschooling mother tells her son that creationism has all the answers. Footage from inside the camp shows young children weeping and wailing as they promise to stop their sinning. Child after child is driven to tears. Juxtapose these scenes with clips from a more moderate Christian radio host (who is appalled by such tactics), and Jesus Camp seems to pose a clear question: are these children being brainwashed? Written by Ken Miller <wkmiller704@yahoo.com>
Becky Fischer is a Pentacostal minister who holds Evangelical Christian conferences and camps, the latter called "Kids on Fire" which are held in Devil's Lake, North Dakota. She holds the camps in the hopes of teaching Evangelical Christian children to lay down their life for God. She equates her philosophy to that of extremist Muslims teaching children literally to fight in the name of Islam, but with 'the right' message. She teaches the children at the camps to be outspoken in their beliefs with a passionate fervor, all in the name of Jesus Christ. Topics presented include the evils of Harry Potter (in Old Testament times, he would have been put to death for being a warlock), the waste of dead churches (where there is no passion in the praising of Jesus), the evils of abortion, and Evangelical Christians taking back government in the United States. The camp attendees soak up the messages like sponges as she is preaching to the converted. Her events are played out against the backdrop of the George W. Bush presidency, he who speaks to Ted Haggard, the leader of the National Association of Evangelicals, on a weekly basis. Christian radio host Mike Papantonio, who is non-Evangelical, provides his views of what he considers Fischer's indoctrination process, and especially the harm he sees in blurring the line between church and state.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Can someone explain to me the relevance of this link?
nderstanding how young children begin to make sense out of the social world has become a major concern within developmental psychology. Over the last 25 years research in this area has raised a number of questions which mirror the confluence of interests from cognitive-developmental and social-developmental psychology. The aims of this book are to consider critically the major themes and findings within this growing social-cognitive developmental research, and to present a new theoretical framework for investigating children's social cognitive skills. Beyond being the first major review of the literature in this area, this synopsis articulates why contemporary theoretical ideas (e.g. information processing, Piagetian and social interactionist) are unlikely ever to provide the conceptual basis for understanding children's participative skills.
Building upon ideas both within and beyond mainstream developmental psychology, the "eco-structural" approach advocated seeks to draw together the advantages of the ecological approach in perceptual psychology with the considerable insights of the conversational analysts, child language researchers and Goffman's analysis of social interaction. This convergence is centred around the dynamic and participatory realities of engaging in conversational contexts, the locus for acquiring social cognitive skills.
The framework provides the building blocks for models of developmental social cognition which can accommodate dynamic aspects of children's conversational skills. This book then is a review of an important area of developmental psychology, a new perspective on how we can study children's participatory social-cognitive skills and a summary of supporting research for the framework advocated.
Table of Contents
Social-Cognitive Development. Individualistic Social-Cognitive Development. Interactionist Social-Cognitive Development. Conversational Contexts: The Site for Emerging Social-Cognitive Skills. A Framework for Investigating Social-Cognitive Skills. Illustrating the Framework: Overhearing and the Development of Social-Cognitive Skills. Overhearing as "Attention Focusing." Overhearing as Conversation Monitoring. Investigating and Understanding Children's Social-Cognitive Skills: A Synopsis.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Sean wrote:
But that's not what you stated Lo. You stated quite clearly that:
Well, studies indicate children aren't indoctrinated, or inclined to believe in the supernatural till about seven.
I call absolute bullshit on this one and will do until I see a study which actually states anything even approximating your statement. It's just not true!
Religious indoctrination
Religious indoctrination, the original sense of indoctrination, refers to a process of imparting doctrine in a non-critical way, as in catechism. Most religious groups among the revealed religions instruct new members in the principles of the religion; this is now not usually referred to as indoctrination by the religions themselves, in part because of the negative connotations the word has acquired. Mystery religions require a period of indoctrination before granting access to esoteric knowledge. (cf. Information security)
As a pejorative term indoctrination implies forcibly or coercively causing people to act and think on the basis of a certain religion.[5] Some secular critics[who?] maintain that all religions indoctrinate their adherents, as children, and the accusation is made in the case of religious extremism. Sects such as Scientology use personality tests and peer pressures to indoctrinate new members.[6] Some religions have commitment ceremonies for children 13 years and younger, such as Bar Mitzvah, Confirmation, and Shichi-Go-San. [Older than seven] In Buddhism Temple boys are encouraged to follow the faith while still very young.[citation needed] Critics of religion, such as Richard Dawkins, maintain that the children of religious parents are often unfairly indoctrinated.[7] The process of subjecting children to complex initiation rituals before they are able to critically assess the event is seen by Dawkins and other critics of religion as cruel.[citation needed]
Very good. Now tell me this; do you know the age at which Irish catholic children study catechism and receive first holy communion? That being the first commitment ceremony for catholics...
I'll give you a clue... it's younger than seven!
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
LMAO - Between the ages of 5 and 6 I was forced to learn and was tested on catechism. Then I had to take part in a ceremony whilst being told that if I didn't 'accept Jesus' and take it all very seriously I would burn in hell for all eternity like all of the protestant children.
You don't call that indoctrination?
Oh and are you seriously telling me that children under the age of seven do not believe in the bogeyman, monsters in the wardrobe and ghosts? I've got a 4yr old here who would ridicule you for that!
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
