Spoilsport!

[loCAtek]

Not quite the same though is it...

Why not? Both sides of the family, knew of his behavior (it was a small New Mexican town) but no one ever called the authorities on him. That's how it is in many Latino families, my example isn't uncommon; that it's swept under the rug, and you don't narc on family. Not that, he didn't keep trying tll the day he died. We were still supposed to profess we 'loved' him. He was still our grandfather 24/7

As for my data, very well, I'll continue researching. May I request a study or report, that shows the RCC is a greater pedophilic sanctuary per capita, than other organizations?

[Sean]

Not quite the same though is it...

Why not? Both sides of the family, knew of his behavior (it was a small New Mexican town) but no one ever called the authorities on him. That's how it is in many Latino families, my example isn't uncommon; that it's swept under the rug, and you don't narc on family. Not that, he didn't keep trying tll the day he died. We were still supposed to profess we 'loved' him. He was still our grandfather 24/7

So you don't feel any disgust for the people who shelter and protect a paedophile? Whatever floats your boat I suppose...

May I request a study or report, that shows the RCC is a greater pedophilic sanctuary per capita, than other organizations?

You may not. I didn't make any claims so I don't have to back any claims up.

[loCAtek]

So you don't feel any disgust for the people who shelter and protect a paedophile? Whatever floats your boat I suppose...

Where did you get that idea?

May I request a study or report, that shows the RCC is a greater pedophilic sanctuary per capita, than other organizations?

You may not. I didn't make any claims so I don't have to back any claims up.

Then may I ask what is your position in this debate?

[Andrew D]

Whether the Roman Catholic Church does or does not have more pedophiles than this, that, or the other institution is trivial. It is a distraction -- the RCC's quite deliberate distraction.

The RCC does not want people thinking about what really matters: its massive and decades-long (at least) conspiracy to cover the whole thing up.

As magnificently laid out by the Dallas Morning News, and as previously posted in some detail, a majority (just shy of two-thirds) of US Catholic bishops have been shown to have participated in hiding the crimes of their pedophile priests. In a few of those cases, it may (and I emphasize "may") be that the bishop involved really did make only a misjudgment -- a grossly negligent misjudgment, but not a criminal one.

But in many of those cases, the bishops acted deliberately to shield the priests from justice. There are written records of bishops' requesting inter-diocesan transfers of priests precisely because criminal investigations of child-molestation crimes were getting too close to the Church.

And worst of all are the bishops who reassigned pedophile priests to positions involving contact with children. Even if one lends credence, which one should not, to the argument that the RCC was justified in presuming that repentant priests would not revert to their previous behavior, sending them back to pools of potential victims was inexcusable.

And the Vatican has been in it up to its eyeballs. Why do you -- why does anyone -- think that the ironically named Cardinal Law is holed up in the Vatican?

There have been some RCC bishops and other hierarchs who have, to their great credit, opposed the cover-up and refused to participate in it. They do not deserve to be tarred with the same brush as the others.

Unfortunately for them, however, the people who brought that on them are their own episcopal colleagues. If the fact that more US RCC bishops did than did not participate in the cover-up has resulted in some bishops' being wrongly splattered with that mud, whose fault is that? The guilty bishops are are the primary loci of blame.

And we should remember that if the RCC had had its way, the whole thing would have remained under wraps forever. The only reason that the RCC has taken such belated and inadequate actions as it has is that the truth came out. Had the truth not come out, the Vatican would have gone right on papering it all over.

It comes out in one country. And there is a great deal of episcopal hand-wringing and enough pious mouthings to launch a flotilla of hot-air balloons. And then it comes out in another country. And there is more wringing of hands and spewing of pieties. And then it comes out in another country. And there is more. And another, and more. And another, and more.

But in all of it, there is never the taking of responsibility.

RCC prelates yammer at the rest of us all the time about moral responsibility. They presume to dictate to us everything from whether we choose to procreate to whom we choose to vote for. And they tell us that their leader has authority to speak infallibly about what we should and should not do.

But when it comes time for them to show us Christian morality in action, what do they do? They lie. They harbor fugitives. They aid and abet horrific crimes against innocent children.

That is the real scandal. While they divert us into interminable arguments about whether a Catholic priest is more or less likely than a Protestant minister to rape a young boy, they are busy eradicating evidence of their own guilt.

[Sean]

Very well said Andrew.

So you don't feel any disgust for the people who shelter and protect a paedophile? Whatever floats your boat I suppose...

Where did you get that idea?

From you.

If your entire family shelters and protects a paedophile, then your statement:

...but I don't think the totally of my family is disgusting. I try to keep it in scientific, statistic, perspective.

means that you are not disgusted by them.

If, on the other hand, it is not the entire family who are protecting and sheltering then your situation is not comparable to that of the Catholic Church.

You can't have it both ways...

May I request a study or report, that shows the RCC is a greater pedophilic sanctuary per capita, than other organizations?

You may not. I didn't make any claims so I don't have to back any claims up.

Then may I ask what is your position in this debate?

I don't think that there is a debate. The Catholic Church has, for decades at least, sheltered and protected paedophiles within their ranks whilst putting them into positions where they can continue their depravity. That much is surely undisputed.

[loCAtek]

Sheltering pedophilia is a common occurrence in the any human social group; the maxim is 'We protect our own.' Furthermore, it's not isolated to the RCC.

Whether more children are being molested today is a matter of debate, says David Burton, professor at University of Michigan School of Social Work in Ann Arbor. Some experts say the explosion of porn and access to the Internet have combined to increase the numbers; others say the public is simply more aware of pedophilia and more cases are being reported and prosecuted.

Pedophilia "has been here for a long time, only it's more well known today," says Ruben Rodriguez, director of the Exploited Children unit of the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children. "The social stigma of being a victim is being overcome, and it's more acceptable to come forward. A lot of kids come forward to protect other kids, and society is better about saying, 'It's not your fault.' "

Whether certain professions — such as the clergy — draw sexual deviants isn't clear. But most agree that child molesters can be found in any environment. "I've known MBAs, CEOs, janitors, grocery clerks. The pure numbers indicate that they're everywhere," Burton says.


USA Today

Still nothing but opinion without supporting facts, that assert the church has a higher rate than any other organization? I agree, that's not debate.

[Andrew D]

The fact remains that the RCC engaged in a decades-long (centuries-long?) conspiracy to cover up the crimes of its pedophile priests and to help those priests evade justice. The RCC has never been brought to task for that. And if people like loCAtek have their way, it never will.

[loCAtek]

The fact remains all organizations engage in covering up the crimes of pedophiles and those within those organizations evade justice. The RCC has been brought to task with numerous lawsuits. And if people like Sean and AndrewD can't show links or evidence that the RCC is the group with the highest rate per capita of pedophiles, then their opinion will not trump facts, nor never will.

[thestoat]

The RCC - and other churches - claim to represent god. They should be beyond reproach. They are clearly not. If they do represent god then he can't keep his own house in order. If they don't then they should stop lying and f*ck off

[Crackpot]

Depends on the church however I have noticed an an inverse correlation between those that claim to represent god and their ability to reflect God.

[thestoat]

That's a nice statement, cp, and I can see truth in those words

[Andrew D]

And if people like Sean and AndrewD can't show links or evidence that the RCC is the group with the highest rate per capita of pedophiles, then their opinion will not trump facts, nor never will.

Could you maybe, for once, at least try to pretend that you've actually read the things you're responding to?

I realize that it will be a novel experience for you. I realize that the whole idea of reading something before you respond to it is utterly alien to your experience.

But couldn't you at least try to make a show of it?

I didn't say that "the RCC is the group with the highest per capita rate of pedophiles". The very first thing in my posting is:

Whether the Roman Catholic Church does or does not have more pedophiles than this, that, or the other institution is trivial. It is a distraction -- the RCC's quite deliberate distraction.

What in those simple sentences is beyond your meager capacity to grasp?

How did you get from my assertion that it doesn't matter whether the RCC is or is not the group with the highest per capita rate of pedophiles to some notion that I am claiming that the RCC is the group with the highest per capita rate of pedophiles?

Are you really that stupid? Or are you just pretending?

Let me put it in a way that even you might be able to comprehend:

Whether the RCC is or is not the group with the highest per capita rate of pedophiles doesn't matter. Can you follow that? It doesn't fucking matter.

It doesn't fucking matter.

Get it yet?

[loCAtek]

AndrewD, of course I do, but that ignores my point to Sean, which he evaded by focusing on your generalization. Sean was asserting this was true;

Lo, are you trying to suggest that some in the Catholic church are not still up to their pedophiliac ways?

I inquired if they were kidding; and haven't received a reply, just an evasion. So, my point matters because i was addressing the other posters and potions in this thread.

[thestoat]

I inquired if they were kidding; and haven't received a reply, just an evasion

Eh? You need to reread the thread. I asked if you were kidding when I thought you were suggesting the RCC were not into pedophile passtimes. You said most weren't and I agreed - emphasis on the most. You really should try reading the posts as Andrew suggests - would save a lot of time.

[Andrew D]

So when you wrote:

... people like Sean and AndrewD ....

you actually didn't mean to include me at all.

Well, that sure clears things up.

[Sean]

Lo, either show me where I have made such an assertion or shut the fuck up and stop whoring for attention.

[loCAtek]

Actually Stoat I am willing to suggest that some of the Catholic sect are not still into little boys and girls.











The rest, of course, are.

Okay, now you say it is a joke again; well here's why it bombed – it's not very funny.

Here's why;
Three or four posters use that line, or variations of it, repeatedly. When it wasn't that hilariously funny to begin with (and it's out of context with the discussion) In my country, a joke is funniest when played the first time. It can be funny the fifth, sixth, up to possibly the tenth time, and then after that well, not so much... I dunno, does this crowd really lack such creativity that they think a bad joke gets better with re-telling?

“Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.”
~ Oscar Wilde

[thestoat]

Hang on, Lo - you seem to be posting random thoughts without any consistency whatsoever. You "attack" Andrew and Sean - when Andrew asks for a backup you quote me, and when I then state that your comments around the quote are wrong you go on to quote Sean. All very confusing.

[Sean]

Tell you what Lo, if I ever post a 'joke' which I don't want to go sailing over your head I'll keep it down to words of two syllables or less and make sure it includes chickens and roads.

My post to Stoat which you quoted might make more sense to you if you find a dictionary and look up 'pedantry' and 'semantics'.

I can't really be held responsible for your lack of both reading comprehension and a sense of humour now can I?

[loCAtek]

Here you go, mates. Better than a dictionary- a manual;



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