The Myth of Osiris'...

[Gob]

Orpheus was a legendary musician, poet, and prophet in ancient Greek religion and myth. The major stories about him are centered on his ability to charm all living things and even stones with his music; his attempt to retrieve his wife from the underworld; and his death at the hands of those who could not hear his divine music

Osiris is an Egyptian god, usually identified as the god of the Afterlife, the underworld and the dead. He is classically depicted as a green-skinned man with a pharaoh's beard, partially mummy-wrapped at the legs, wearing a distinctive crown with two large ostrich feathers at either side, and holding a symbolic crook and flail.

[Sean]

I dunno mate... what looks like a crook and flail might be a stylised violin and bow...

*Walks away humming 'Osiris in the Underworld'*

[loCAtek]

The crock and flail were royal symbols carried by the pharaohs and gods of Egypt, not just Osiris.

Anubis;


Khons


Wiki;

The flail is depicted alongside the “crook” as symbols of office for the crowned Egyptian Pharaoh. The flail symbolises the Pharaoh's role as provider of food for his people and the crook symbolises his role as the shepherd of his people. Both crook and flail also serve to link the Pharaoh with Osiris. Depictions of Anubis, the jackal-headed god of the embalming, also include the flail as attribute.

Okay, Orpheus next...

[loCAtek]

Here's some from your favourite website that you overlooked...

"The Egyptians of every period in which they are known to us believed that Osiris was of divine origin, that he suffered death and mutilation at the hands of the powers of evil, that after a great struggle with these powers he rose again, that he became henceforth the king of the underworld and judge of the dead, and that because he had conquered death the righteous also might conquer death...In Osiris the Christian Egyptians found the prototype of Christ, and in the pictures and statues of Isis suckling her son Horus, they perceived the prototypes of the Virgin Mary and her child."

Okay, but that's Horus, I'll get to him. I have noticed Osiris and Horus are confused a lot.

...Christ Myth proponent George Albert Wells refers to Plutarch's account and asserts that Osiris dies and is mourned on the first day and that his resurrection is celebrated on the third day with the joyful cry "Osiris has been found". He also argues that St. Paul's comparison of bodily resurrection with a seed being planted, and corn then growing (1 Cor 15:35-38), is based on Ancient Egyptian concepts in which the germinating seeds in Osiris beds represent resurrection

The third day of the festival, not the third day in the timeline of the myth. In the myth, Osiris is dead for so long that his body in it's coffin, is engulfed into a tree trunk. That would take decades if not more, considering how long it takes a cedar to grow that large.

Egyptologist Erik Hornung observes that Egyptian Christians continued to mummify corpses (an integral part of the Osirian beliefs) until it finally came to an end with the arrival of Islam and argues for an association between the passion of Jesus and Osirian traditions, particularly in the apocryphal gospel of Nicodemus and Christ's descent into Hades. He concludes that whilst Christianity rejected anything "pagan" it did so only at a superficial level and that early Christianity was "deeply indebted" to Ancient Egypt.

The gospel of Nicodemus was written 2nd to 4th century, that is post-Christ. The next paragraph reads;

Egyptologist Erik Hornung observes that Egyptian Christians continued to mummify corpses (an integral part of the Osirian beliefs) until it finally came to an end with the arrival of Islam and argues for an association between the passion of Jesus and Osirian traditions, particularly in the apocryphal gospel of Nicodemus and Christ's descent into Hades. He concludes that whilst Christianity rejected anything "pagan" it did so only at a superficial level and that early Christianity was "deeply indebted" to Ancient Egypt."[28]

David J. MacLeod argues that the resurrection of Osiris differs from Jesus Christ, saying:

"Perhaps the only pagan god for whom there is a resurrection is the Egyptian Osiris. Close examination of this story shows that it is very different from Christ's resurrection. Osiris did not rise; he ruled in the abode of the dead. As biblical scholar, Roland de Vaux, wrote, 'What is meant of Osiris being "raised to life?" Simply that, thanks to the ministrations of Isis, he is able to lead a life beyond the tomb which is an almost perfect replica of earthly existence. But he will never again come among the living and will reign only over the dead. This revived god is in reality a "mummy" god.'... No, the mummified Osiris was hardly an inspiration for the resurrected Christ... As Yamauchi observes, 'Ordinary men aspired to identification with Osiris as one who had triumphed over death. But it is a mistake to equate the Egyptian view of the afterlife with the biblical doctrine of resurrection. To achieve immortality the Egyptian had to meet three conditions: First, his body had to be preserved by mummification. Second, nourishment was provided by the actual offering of daily bread and beer. Third, magical spells were interred with him. His body did not rise from the dead; rather elements of his personality - his Ba and Ka - continued to hover over his body.'"[29]

]Some believe that the close maternal relationship between Isis and Horus presented in ancient Egyptian imagery were incorporated into later Christian iconography.[16][32] In particular, the depictions of Mary and Jesus from Our Lady of Perpetual Help and the Black Madonna of Częstochowa share many similarities to extant ancient Egyptian art depictions of Horus and Isis.[33] Egyptologist Erik Hornung wrote that "There was an obvious analogy between the Horus child and the baby Jesus and the care they received from their sacred mothers; long before Christianity, Isis had borne the epithet 'mother of the god.'"

That's Horus again, I'll have to get to him.

[loCAtek]

Oh yeah,

They say it reads 'Orpheus Bacchus' and some say that's a reference to 'Osiris Dionysus'

And that's the extent of your point "They say" and "some say".

Well, the Bacchus = Dionysus is easy enough, no need to explain that; the relationship to Orpheus is from the Orphic Brotherhood, who worshiped a form of Dionysus AKA Dionysus Zagreus mentioned earlier. The sloppy associations are due to it being a fake.

[Sean]

The crock and flail were royal symbols carried by the pharaohs and gods of Egypt, not just Osiris.

Really? Have you told the world of Egyptology about this revelation? They've been wondering about those for years!

[Sean]

I have noticed Osiris and Horus are confused a lot.

Only by you. Not by those who choose to actually educate themselves in these matters.

That's Horus again, I'll have to get to him.

I can't wait!

[loCAtek]

The crock and flail were royal symbols carried by the pharaohs and gods of Egypt, not just Osiris.

Really? Have you told the world of Egyptology about this revelation? They've been wondering about those for years!

You didn't click the link did you?

[loCAtek]

Only by you. Not by those who choose to actually educate themselves in these matters.

I can't wait!

Actually, mythology was one of my favorite subjects in High School. i was extremely fortunate to have an excellent teacher: Mr. P.

Mr. P loved to introduce himself as the 'male lesbian'; not because of that tired joke of "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.", but because he really was a Lesbian, with a capital 'L'; he was born on the Greek island of Lesbos. He so loved his native culture, that he became a teacher of Ancient History. What's even better, he loved to travel to those places he taught of: Egypt, Rome, Greece and the Middle East, etc. His slideshows weren't boring, third party lectures, but accounts of what he'd experienced first hand. He'd bring back trinkets and native garb (There's a picture of me, somewhere with my first Arab headdress on. With my dark skin, Mr. P said I really looked the part.); he did the local dances for us and spoke in the tongues when could. And the legends! The myths!

The story of Isis and Osiris is epic, goes on and on, because Isis spent a lifetime searching for her husband. It fills the pages of a modern book, and walls of walls of hieroglyphs in the Egyptian tombs. I know I've seen the pictures.

Thus so, I signed up for his classes every year, without fail.

[Sean]

So who else besides you confuses Horus and Osiris?

[loCAtek]

You did, 'eh?

Here's some from your favourite website that you overlooked...

"The Egyptians of every period in which they are known to us believed that Osiris was of divine origin, that he suffered death and mutilation at the hands of the powers of evil, that after a great struggle with these powers he rose again, that he became henceforth the king of the underworld and judge of the dead, and that because he had conquered death the righteous also might conquer death...In Osiris the Christian Egyptians found the prototype of Christ, and in the pictures and statues of Isis suckling her son Horus, they perceived the prototypes of the Virgin Mary and her child."

Okay, but that's Horus, I'll get to him. I have noticed Osiris and Horus are confused a lot.

...Christ Myth proponent George Albert Wells refers to Plutarch's account and asserts that Osiris dies and is mourned on the first day and that his resurrection is celebrated on the third day with the joyful cry "Osiris has been found". He also argues that St. Paul's comparison of bodily resurrection with a seed being planted, and corn then growing (1 Cor 15:35-38), is based on Ancient Egyptian concepts in which the germinating seeds in Osiris beds represent resurrection

The third day of the festival, not the third day in the timeline of the myth. In the myth, Osiris is dead for so long that his body in it's coffin, is engulfed into a tree trunk. That would take decades if not more, considering how long it takes a cedar to grow that large.

Egyptologist Erik Hornung observes that Egyptian Christians continued to mummify corpses (an integral part of the Osirian beliefs) until it finally came to an end with the arrival of Islam and argues for an association between the passion of Jesus and Osirian traditions, particularly in the apocryphal gospel of Nicodemus and Christ's descent into Hades. He concludes that whilst Christianity rejected anything "pagan" it did so only at a superficial level and that early Christianity was "deeply indebted" to Ancient Egypt.

The gospel of Nicodemus was written 2nd to 4th century, that is post-Christ. The next paragraph reads;

Egyptologist Erik Hornung observes that Egyptian Christians continued to mummify corpses (an integral part of the Osirian beliefs) until it finally came to an end with the arrival of Islam and argues for an association between the passion of Jesus and Osirian traditions, particularly in the apocryphal gospel of Nicodemus and Christ's descent into Hades. He concludes that whilst Christianity rejected anything "pagan" it did so only at a superficial level and that early Christianity was "deeply indebted" to Ancient Egypt."[28]

David J. MacLeod argues that the resurrection of Osiris differs from Jesus Christ, saying:

"Perhaps the only pagan god for whom there is a resurrection is the Egyptian Osiris. Close examination of this story shows that it is very different from Christ's resurrection. Osiris did not rise; he ruled in the abode of the dead. As biblical scholar, Roland de Vaux, wrote, 'What is meant of Osiris being "raised to life?" Simply that, thanks to the ministrations of Isis, he is able to lead a life beyond the tomb which is an almost perfect replica of earthly existence. But he will never again come among the living and will reign only over the dead. This revived god is in reality a "mummy" god.'... No, the mummified Osiris was hardly an inspiration for the resurrected Christ... As Yamauchi observes, 'Ordinary men aspired to identification with Osiris as one who had triumphed over death. But it is a mistake to equate the Egyptian view of the afterlife with the biblical doctrine of resurrection. To achieve immortality the Egyptian had to meet three conditions: First, his body had to be preserved by mummification. Second, nourishment was provided by the actual offering of daily bread and beer. Third, magical spells were interred with him. His body did not rise from the dead; rather elements of his personality - his Ba and Ka - continued to hover over his body.'"[29]

]Some believe that the close maternal relationship between Isis and Horus presented in ancient Egyptian imagery were incorporated into later Christian iconography.[16][32] In particular, the depictions of Mary and Jesus from Our Lady of Perpetual Help and the Black Madonna of Częstochowa share many similarities to extant ancient Egyptian art depictions of Horus and Isis.[33] Egyptologist Erik Hornung wrote that "There was an obvious analogy between the Horus child and the baby Jesus and the care they received from their sacred mothers; long before Christianity, Isis had borne the epithet 'mother of the god.'"

That's Horus again, I'll have to get to him.

[Sean]

You fucking imbecile! Can you point to one thing in there that makes you think I don't know between Osiris and Horus?

Go on... I'll wait!

You're on to a loser here you know. Egyptology has been a hobby and a fascination of mine for about 30 years. I doubt that you can teach me much...

[loCAtek]

Then contribute pls. or be a control freak?

[Scooter]

Only one freak controlling you

[Sean]

Contribute? My every contribution is met with even greater levels of muppetry by you.

Now, care to address my last contribution?

Can you point to one thing in there that makes you think I don't know between Osiris and Horus?

[loCAtek]

Just a thought;

Jesus and and his disciples had all believed in Jewish monotheism. Osiris was part of a pagan pantheon of Egypt, that the Jew's most significant prophet, Moses strongly contested and rejected, not in small part due to the enslavement of the Judaic people by the Pharaohs. Moses' legends repeatedly have him defying Egyptian priest's 'magic' and destroying the Pharaoh's army, in the name of the 'One True God' YHWH.

In the Jewish and Christian Bible God establishes the Mosaic Covenant with the Israelites after he has saved them from slavery in Egypt in the events of The Exodus.

In Judaism, the Mosaic Covenant or Sinaitic Covenant refers to the covenant between God and the Israelites. The establishment and stipulations of the Mosaic Covenant are recorded in the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, which are collectively called the Torah.

The New Covenant of Jesus, acknowledged this

NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

10“FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

11“AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,
AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, ‘KNOW THE LORD,’
FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,
FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

12“FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,
AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”

So, why would any apostle, in writing the Christian Gospel, deliberately desire any association to the pagan Egyptians, or their gods? That defeats the whole purpose of the Old AND the New Covenant.

[Sean]

You really don't get it do you?

If you are trying to tout a new religion it's easier to convert people if the new religion contains bits and bobs that they will be familiar and comfortable with

We are all aware that Moses was a follower of Monotheism. As I said before he was probably a follower of Ahkenaten which would have made his 'One True God' the Aten (at least to begin with...) and not YHWH.

[thestoat]

It is why, when the Romans conquered England, they simply Romanized place names, keeping them similar to the names already there

[Crackpot]

It is important though to make the distinction between the central motifs of a religion that may be similar to others and those that were made to ease the transition of other religions into another.

[Sean]

There is not necessarily a distinction between the two CP. One could easily be the cause of the other.