The Doctor Speaks...

[Scooter]

No, there are not two Denis Learys.

Someone who has a habit of reading things that are not there confused him with Timothy Leary.

[Sean]

It's the very same Denis Leary oldr...

[oldr_n_wsr]

Ok, good to know. I was getting a little confused.

[loCAtek]

Sean has already stated that the excerpt he lifting was NOT from that book.

I thought that point was worth reiterating as you seem to still think it was from what you posted above.
It isn't, so your points would be invalid.

Not quite, in one post I thought it might be the DVD Doughnuts to Doughebags, which is what Sean denied his source was;

...

The DVD also includes limericks:

...

You are incorrect. It is not from that source.

My following posts went on

Or else, his 'comedy' book - Why We Suck'

said on Amazon;

In the Prologue, Leary comes out saying that this is a comedy book. It is a parody, satire and poking fun. His exaggerated take on life. That's what all comedians do and Leary does it well. He also points out that there are endless things you can buy in America - but a sense of humor isn't one of them. Well put.

And on;

In the Prologue, Leary comes out saying that this is a comedy book. It is a parody, satire and poking fun. His exaggerated take on life. That's what all comedians do and Leary does it well. He also points out that there are endless things you can buy in America - but a sense of humor isn't one of them. Well put.

Facts from Wiki:

The first record in history of the term "Pope" is assigned to Pope Heraclas of Alexandria in a letter written by the bishop of Rome, Dionysius, to Philemon:

τοῦτον ἐγὼ τὸν κανόνα καὶ τὸν τύπον παρὰ τοῦ μακαρίου πάπα ἡμῶν Ἡρακλᾶ παρέλαβον.[9]

Which translates into:

I received this rule and ordinance from our blessed pope, Heraclas.

It is difficult to ascertain the identity of the first Bishop of Rome to carry the title Pope of Rome. Some sources suggest that it was Pope Marcellinus (d. 304 AD),[10] while other sources suggest that this did not happen until the 6th century, with Pope John I (523–6 AD) the first to assume this title.[7]

St. Peter was retro actively called the first Pope, meaning the first leader of the Christian church. In his day, he was not even titled as Bishop, but only known as the 'Rock' of the Church.

BTW Amazon. com says this excerpt is from Chapter 18: The Pope is a Pimp, from Why We Suck: A Feel Good Guide to Staying Fat, Loud, Lazy and Stupid
http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Suck-Stayi ... 0670031607

Product Description

Leary says the point of the book was to tell people not to take themselves so seriously;

Why We Suck: A Feel Good Guide to Staying Fat, Loud, Lazy and Stupid is a 2008 book by Irish-American television and movie star, comedian and commentator Denis Leary.

Leary is credited on the book cover as "Dr. Denis Leary", a reference to a joke from his 1993 stand-up special, No Cure for Cancer. During the show he mentions he wants to write a self help book entitled "Shut the Fuck Up, by Dr. Denis Leary", with the "advice" being telling the people seeking help the one thing no one has ever told them to do ("shut the fuck up"), which he believes would help people more than actual advice.

Leary also has legitimate use of the "Doctor" title because of an honorary doctorate bestowed upon him by his alma mater Emerson College.[1] "Sure it’s just a celebrity type of thing--they only gave it to me because I’m famous." Leary explains. "But it’s legal and it means I get to say I’m a doctor--just like Dr. Phil."[2] In the book, he refers to Dr. Phil as Dr. Full.[3]

The book reached #7 on the New York Times Best Sellers list in December, 2008.[4]

Too bad, they don't sell senses of humor in Oz, sounds like a hilarious book, can I borrow it, since you're noting using either of them?

...which so far has not been denied.

However, it's not a problem for me to stop by the local book shop tomorrow and read the tome in question. You could too.

So, why argue how popish the pope's were; if the author himself says it's all a joke?

[The Hen]

Can you please provide the Amazon.com reference which identifies that the words from Denis Leary come from Chapter 18 of the book.

You claimed they supported you. I can find no evidence.

Thanks in advance.

[Sean]

In fact the bedraggled one is correct. I did refute her claim that the source was a DVD but did not refute the fact that it is from Leary's book... mainly because it is from his book!

What I do take issue with is this quote:

In the Prologue, Leary comes out saying that this is a comedy book. It is a parody, satire and poking fun. His exaggerated take on life. That's what all comedians do and Leary does it well. He also points out that there are endless things you can buy in America - but a sense of humor isn't one of them. Well put.

That is from an Amazon review. That's all, nothing more. I could easily log in to Amazon and write:

This is a completely factual book. Leary says so from the start. He has retired from comedy and therefore this book contains absolutely no satire whatsoever. Honest.

It would carry just as much weight as your 'source'...

Here are some editorial reviews from Amazon...

According to Leary, his first book is not for the faint of heart, by which he means Americans: "I am here to debunk and declassify and otherwise hold up a brutally honest mirror to our fat, ugly, lazy American selves." Now, a good many comedians make a career out of daring to speak the ugly, gasping truths that few others would. Leary brings a particularly acid-tinged tone to his rantings about annoying children, why cats are satanic spawn, what an ugly racket the Catholic Church is and (more surprisingly) why he loves Oprah.

Actor, comedian, author Denis Leary has always embodied an "Emperor's New Clothes" mentality, calling out the culture at large, exposing the hypocrisy within. Leary often makes his point with rough-hewn language, and WHY WE SUCK is no exception. Thankfully, it's read by the author himself, perhaps the only person who could do justice to its mocking tone and righteous angst. No mere foul-mouthed diatribe, this book is a smart commentary on a flatulent, self-indulgent society.

Proudly Irish American, defiantly working class, with a reserve of compassion for the underdog and the overlooked, Leary delivers blistering diatribes that are penetrating social commentary with no holds barred.

The fact that the book happens to be funny does not make it untrue.

I can see the headlines now... "Denis Leary Writes Amusing Book. Shock! Horror!"

Muppet...

[The Hen]

My apologies to you Lo for not realsiing the text was from the book. I was wrong.

Mind you, I have always found that comedy is the best way to pass on difficult truths.

[loCAtek]

Hmmm, he didn't say untrue, but exaggerated ...which is why he asked people not to take themselves so seriously.

The title was, 'Why We Suck' and not 'Why You Suck'

Dr, Leary is honest and doesn't take himself so seriously that he excludes himself from the sucking.

"I include myself in this 'why we suck' group" said by Denis - at 43 seconds into this vid.


If he's not taking himself seriously, and he's asking you not to take him seriously, then why are you?

[Gob]

Are you sure it's Dr Dennis, not Dr Timothy, you're talking about?

[The Hen]

If he's not taking himself seriously, and he's asking you not to take him seriously, then why are you?

See my third sentence above.

[Gob]

If he's not taking himself seriously, and he's asking you not to take him seriously, then why are you?

Oh thX sean, we were needing an example of the 'priests are pedophiles' myth.

Poor Dr. Leary, the Pope of Dope, I believe this was from his 'stand up philosopher' stage, when he admits to just making things up for a shock/laff.

I dunno how reputable I'd find the philosophy of guy who's wife and daughter killed themselves, and who was publicly denounced by his own son.

When he was dying in 1996, he was mostly famous for being famous, the oldest celebutant, a 76-year-old guy in a wheelchair at the Viper Room

[Sean]

Nice try Lo but no matter how much you try to sidetrack this I won't forget my earlier question:

Do you really believe that the notion of Priests being pedophiles is just a myth?

[loCAtek]

For Gob, since he didn't read the whole thread;

It's an honorary doctorate (I think in writing) which is probably why you've never heard him refer to himself as such. I was thrown by that title, when I googled Dr. Leary; in searching in what context these comments were made. [Since mysteriously, no link was provided] Even the internet doesn't think of Denis as a doctor.

And this;

Still comedy, this would best be in Laffs.

Absolutely not! It's his opinions on a VERY religious matter. He expresses them with a sense of humour but you wouldn't know the difference between that and comedy would you...

Oh and priests abusing children is a myth is it? Are you serious or just seriously twatted?

You're right, I left out the figures, since I did and still do take this piece as a joke. After all, I certainly don't think the sex offenders in the church committed the acts because they were homosexual as Denis suggests in the OP. He doesn't attribute the behavior to any other reason. Even as a joke, (which is my position) that's slightly offensive, but you say this is supposed to be truthful humor? Then, let me get this straight-

You're defending the position that abuse exists in the Church because of the homosexuals;

A bit long but an interesting rant on a well-worn topic by Dr Denis Leary:

...

Once they had chosen the No Sex But Plenty Of Elaborate Outfits route, was it any wonder that men with a penchant for other men and free-flowing robes would sign up? And, of course, one thing led to another and one day some priest realised he had an attraction to little boys and - what a surprise - happened to be in a job where he was SURROUNDED by the little fellas - WHAT A JACKPOT!
And off to the sex abuse races they went. ...

[Sean]

So you're still avoiding my question...

Not surprising really as you've taken up an indefensible position.

[The Hen]

Lo just because someone is a humourist, doesn't mean that that is the over-riding way for classifying everything they do.

Now just shush your chops over what forum the thread was posted in. That is nothing but a weak diversionary tactic.

[loCAtek]

Eh? The author himself said it's comedy; however I was willing to look at it seriously where I noticed Denis attributes abuse to gays.

So you're still avoiding my question...

Not surprising really as you've taken up an indefensible position.

Not quite, I admitted I didn't produce figures, as that seemed irrelevant to a joke. However, since we're pinpointed the seriousness of Denis' allegation, it goes beyond the first question I was going ask;

"What percentage of clergy are sex offenders, over the history of the church compared to the percentage in other occupations and/or institutions?"

In order to discuss your point, I have to ask;

"What percentage of clergy are homosexual sex offenders; and what percentage are heterosexual sex offenders, over the history of the church compared to the percentage in other occupations and/or institutions?"

[Scooter]

You don't need any of that to answer his question.

You said that clergy sexual abuse of children was a "myth". Is it?

{hint - the only honest, non-evasive answers to that question are "yes" or "no")

[Scooter]

You're defending the position that abuse exists in the Church because of the homosexuals

That isn't his position at all. He attributes it to (1) enforced celibacy and (2) the decision to shuttle abusive priests from parish to parish rather than sack them. By ignoring what he wrote previous to what you quoted, you are mistaking what he says is cause and what is effect.

So, clergy sexual abuse of children a myth? Yes or no?

[Sean]

Uh-oh, You've cornered her now Scoot...

She'll have to dig another hole.

[loCAtek]

Nope, what I did was my homework, and went to the library after work and stole, 'Why we suck' by Denis Leary, like the author said to do. No, I kid I didn't steal it, but I did borrow it. No, I didn't borrow either- as my library card has expired and the rat bastards are going to charge me a FEE to check out a book at a public library! <sigh>

So, I read as much as I could which, of course, included all of Chapter 18: The Pope is a Pimp...

Where Leary describes church clergy members as homosexuals as often as possible. After this first equation of celibacy to man-to-man attraction;

Once they had chosen the No Sex But Plenty Of Elaborate Outfits route, was it any wonder that men with a penchant for other men and free-flowing robes would sign up?

He goes on to say the Ten Commandments should be re-written, in one such following way;

Honor thy father and thy Mother- meaning your ACTUAL father and mother, not the sterling silver-crucifix toting Barbara Streisand fan following you around like a gay cat in heat, or the angry lesbian who instead of acting on her sexual urges decided to don religious garb and bust the balls of young bucks like you. Those two you can tell to go fuck themselves. Also -- give them this personal message from me-- Jesus will see you in hell. Where there are no Melissa Etheridge records or Sex and the City DVDs.

Also in another chapter;

It's apparently okay to have sex with other guys as long as you keep it secret an have a wife who somehow doesn't know AND you are either the pastor of a church or a sitting senator or both. In Larry Craig's case the term 'sitting senator' will more than likely get a laugh out of you--as will the term 'wide stance'

...and the #1 Homophobic religious slur, of the book (his CAPS not mine);

JESUS WAS A HOMO

All obviously, hilariously done in jest, since in an earlier chapter Denis accounts how he liked Catholic school (Chapter called Nuns, tits and ...)and in particular his Nun/teacher/mentor who first encouraged him to audition for the school talent show; later praising his talents and giving him the theater bug, for which he's grateful to this day.
(Much of this book is autobiographical and non-political/or equally critical of ALL political stripes)
A fine, funny read and perhaps I'll head back tomorrow and finish some more chapters.




So.

Should I believe out of context; willful ignorance of how talented Denis Leary is at comic satire? Or; should I believe my own eyes?


A: It's 'eyes' by a landslide, ladies and gentlemen. Could someone buy me this book, I already have a fully-functioning sense of humor.


As one reviewer put it(because a lot of people were pissed at him making fun of autism);

Jim Chiappetta says:
... Until I read the book, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt because we do tend to take things out of context when it suits our purpose.

...oh, and my comments on priests don't fit here; I'll explain them in a more appropriate thread.