BC is so BC

All things philosophical, related to belief and / or religions of any and all sorts.
Personal philosophy welcomed.
User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: BC is so BC

Post by loCAtek »

English is a West Germanic language that arose in the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of England and spread into what was to become south-east Scotland under the influence of the Anglian medieval kingdom of Northumbria. Following the economic, political, military, scientific, cultural, and colonial influence of Great Britain and the United Kingdom from the 18th century, via the British Empire, and of the United States since the mid-20th century,[5][6][7][8] it has been widely dispersed around the world, become the leading language of international discourse, and has acquired use as lingua franca in many regions.[9][10] It is widely learned as a second language and used as an official language of the European Union and many Commonwealth countries, as well as in many world organizations. It is the third most natively spoken language in the world, after Mandarin Chinese and Spanish.[11]

...

Modern English, sometimes described as the first global lingua franca,[18][19] is the dominant language or in some instances even the required international language of communications, science, information technology, business, seafaring,[20] aviation,[21] entertainment, radio and diplomacy.[22]


...

A working knowledge of English has become a requirement in a number of fields, occupations and professions such as medicine and computing; as a consequence over a billion people speak English to at least a basic level (see English language learning and teaching). It is one of six official languages of the United Nations.

Wiki


BTW Can you point to an agreement by the global community, that French was the current international lingua franca?

User avatar
thestoat
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:53 am
Location: England

Re: BC is so BC

Post by thestoat »

Wow. Not sure you had a decent grasp of English, lo. I ask again - can you point me to a global AGREEMENT? I am well aware of how popular English is, having travelled extensively all over the place. I am simply unaware of a global AGREEMENT.
loCAtek wrote:BTW Can you point to an agreement by the global community, that French was the current international lingua franca?
Eh? Where have I stated that? My point (glib, though I though that was obvious) was that the French typically like to speak French and not English (I am not saying the cannot or don'e ever speak English - just before you start to misinterpret me there).
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: BC is so BC

Post by loCAtek »

thestoat wrote: I am simply unaware of a global AGREEMENT.
Cool, because I never claimed there was one;
loCAtek wrote:
Neither is the English language part of their collective history, but it's what the global community has agreed to adopt as a standard.
Nowhere did I say a formal agreement was signed, just that a standard was formed.
thestoat wrote:
loCAtek wrote:BTW Can you point to an agreement by the global community, that French was the current international lingua franca?
Eh? Where have I stated that? My point (glib, though I though that was obvious) was that the French typically like to speak French and not English (I am not saying the cannot or don'e ever speak English - just before you start to misinterpret me there).
My point exactly made earlier with the Chinese;
loCAtek wrote:... The Chinese/Asians do use their own time-keeping standard internally[and here I'll add their own language standard internally]; 2011 is Year 4708 by the Chinese Calendar, but when interacting with Westerners they use English and the Gregorian Calendar.
:)

Can we also agree then that;
loCAtek wrote: Whatever standard is used is pretty irreverent, so long as communications and records, are agreed on.

User avatar
thestoat
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:53 am
Location: England

Re: BC is so BC

Post by thestoat »

loCAtek wrote:Cool, because I never claimed there was one;
Err - bollocks ...
loCAtek wrote:Neither is the English language part of their collective history, but it's what the global community has agreed to adopt as a standard.
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: BC is so BC

Post by loCAtek »

...and the rest of the post, if you care to address it;
loCAtek wrote:
Nowhere did I say a formal agreement was signed, just that a standard was formed.
thestoat wrote:
loCAtek wrote:BTW Can you point to an agreement by the global community, that French was the current international lingua franca?
Eh? Where have I stated that? My point (glib, though I though that was obvious) was that the French typically like to speak French and not English (I am not saying the cannot or don'e ever speak English - just before you start to misinterpret me there).
My point exactly made earlier with the Chinese;
loCAtek wrote:... The Chinese/Asians do use their own time-keeping standard internally[and here I'll add their own language standard internally]; 2011 is Year 4708 by the Chinese Calendar, but when interacting with Westerners they use English and the Gregorian Calendar.
:)

Can we also agree then that;
loCAtek wrote: Whatever standard is used is pretty irreverent, so long as communications and records, are agreed on.
...It does debate the topic, as well as your hijack.

User avatar
thestoat
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:53 am
Location: England

Re: BC is so BC

Post by thestoat »

My point was simply you referred to a global agreement - I queried that since I had not heard of one. You then state you had never mentioned a global agreement and now seem to accept that you did mention one. I hope you realise and are admitting there is not one. The rest is just bumf
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: BC is so BC

Post by loCAtek »

Nope, I never used the legal term 'agreement', but that gentlemen, as yourself 'agreed'.

As the Globe has agreed to an English lingua franca, currently.

User avatar
thestoat
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:53 am
Location: England

Re: BC is so BC

Post by thestoat »

Ah, I see. So you believe people can agree without reaching an agreement?
loCAtek wrote:As the Globe has agreed to an English lingua franca, currently.
Can you tell me when the globe agreed to this?
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

liberty
Posts: 4787
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:31 pm
Location: Colonial Possession

Re: BC is so BC

Post by liberty »

Wasn’t it agreed through the UN that English would be international language of air traffic control?
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: BC is so BC

Post by loCAtek »

thestoat wrote:Ah, I see. So you believe people can agree without reaching an agreement?
Well, agreeing between persons is not the same as a legal agreement which you seem to be referring to. As you and I, are 'agreeing' to communicate in English, without any lawful agreement being served or judicially decided on. I'm sure you're aware of the distinction.

Thus, the Chinese et al. agreed on English as a trade language, and later as a international standard for diplomacy, etc, with 'Anno domino' as a time record standard.

User avatar
thestoat
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:53 am
Location: England

Re: BC is so BC

Post by thestoat »

liberty wrote:Wasn’t it agreed through the UN that English would be international language of air traffic control?
Yes, I do believe it was.
loCAtek wrote:Well, agreeing between persons is not the same as a legal agreement which you seem to be referring to
Hang on a moment - the ONLY person who has mentioned legal agreement had been your good self: think about this - I have NOT NOT NOT mentioned legal agreement. Will you ignore this statement? Or still try to insist that I was talking about a legal agreement?

The point as I see it is this: I have seen a load of Americans (and Brits too) visiting Europe and just speaking English to complete strangers expecting them to understand and reply in English. Many times the complete strangers do reply in English - because they can. That does not call for a basic assumption that there is a global agreement to speak English. I don't speak Polish - but I would never visit Poland and just start speaking English (maybe if in an international hotel, but not otherwise). I would first ask if the person I spoke to speak English. Anything else I find rude and presumptuous. There is NOT a global agreement to speak English - it is typically Americans and Brits who think that there is, much to our shame (Not ALL Americans and Brits of course - many are enlightened, and I assume most of the board are thus since the standard of debate is high). Pop over to a remote village in Russia and see how many of the inhabitants follow this "agreement".
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: BC is so BC

Post by loCAtek »

Well, I beg your pardon, I thought you were insisting 'agreement' was different from agreeing, because of legal phrasing.

I have, in fact, thanks to the military service and a former rich boyfriend traveled to (in an Eastern order):

Hawaii,
Japan,
Bali,
Hong Kong,
The Middle East,
France,
[West]Germany,
Netherlands.
The UK

...and of course across the US and Mexico. Also my ex-husbands visited Italy, China and Soviet Russia, when they did not know the native language.

In all of those places, it was easy to find an English speaker anywhere; the market, the bus, the restaurants, etc. etc. etc.


As my Philippina co-worker, who's been in this country only four years tells me- the prevailing practice is to teach children English in school, because they are going to need it.

A friend's Japanese wife told me the same thing.

...as does every Latino I've ever met who's crossed the border.

My (current)boyfriend who was born in a Central American country, was raised bi-lingual. He could speak English fluently before he ever came to the United States.

I mentioned I've traveled to Hawaii because they see some of the most international tourists in the world. A Hawaiian professional will know at least four languages, but also knows he can always fall back on English.

Also, the Bay Area is one of the countries biggest immigration landing zones for; East Indians, Iraqis, Kenyans, Afghans, Somalis, Vietnamese, et al and they all arrive already understanding English.




...




Now, I can believe you, Mr. Stoat or my own eyes/ears.

User avatar
thestoat
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:53 am
Location: England

Re: BC is so BC

Post by thestoat »

G'ah - are you deliberately misunderstanding me or can you really not understand what I have written? I have NOT said that people in other countries cannot speak English. In fact I think that more people CAN speak English than any other language, and all over the world it is considered a good thing to learn. Please try to understand. What I am saying that they they do not HAVE to and it is presumptuous to expect them to in their own country. It would not hurt us monolinguists to learn another language instead of expecting everyone to converse with us on our own terms. If we stopped adopting that high and mighty attitude I think the world would be a nicer (and more harmonious) place. There are other languages and cultures out there, and while you might not consider them to be particularly important compared to yours, they do.
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: BC is so BC

Post by loCAtek »

Then we agree that the Global Community agreed to use English as a standard lingua franca. :) If you don't' agree with that, then are you suggestng the rest of the world is being coerced into using it, somehow?

BTW It was spread not due the US Americans, but thanks to the British Empire.

User avatar
thestoat
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:53 am
Location: England

Re: BC is so BC

Post by thestoat »

loCAtek wrote:Then we agree that the Global Community agreed to use English as a standard lingua franca. :) If you don't' agree with that, then are you suggestng the rest of the world is being coerced into using it, somehow?
When did the Global Community agree to use English? This has been my question all along because I know of no such agreement. Because English is often used since it is so widely spoken does NOT constitute a global agreement. There is no coercion going on that I am aware of so, no, I am not suggestion coercion.
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

Liberty1
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Out Where The West Is

Re: BC is so BC

Post by Liberty1 »

A collectivist/statist view would need for the worlds govrnments to "agree" to make english the universal language, in order for there to be a universal language.

An individualist would take the world population's adoption as english being the defacto universal language as proof that it has been agreed to.

You have different world views, move along.


BTW, Loca has the correct view
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

quaddriver
Posts: 759
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 am
Location: Wherever the man sends me
Contact:

Re: BC is so BC

Post by quaddriver »

Global agreements?
In the year 1944 on the 1st of November in response to a British initiative, the government of the United States invited 55 allied and neutral States to meet in Chicago. Out of the allied States invited 52 attended this meeting. The aim of this meeting was to discuss the international problems faced in Civil Aviation1.

Outcome of the Meeting
The Chicago Convention on Civil Aviation.
Formation of ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization).
The Chicago Convention saw the implementation of English as the official standardized language to be used in Aviation around the world. English speaking countries dominated the design, manufacture as well as operation of aircrafts 1, it thus made sense to have English as the standard language that would be used by all the countries involved in Aviation around the globe. Having a standardized language aids in avoiding misunderstanding and confusion, aspects which both have an effect on air safety.

quaddriver
Posts: 759
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 am
Location: Wherever the man sends me
Contact:

Re: BC is so BC

Post by quaddriver »

More?
Although English was adopted as the official language of the maritime industries by the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping (STCW Convention) in 1978,

quaddriver
Posts: 759
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 am
Location: Wherever the man sends me
Contact:

Re: BC is so BC

Post by quaddriver »

And?
English is the most widespread language in the world and is more widely spoken and written than any other language.
Over 400 million people use the English vocabulary as a mother tongue, only surpassed in numbers, but not in distribution by speakers of the many varieties of Chinese.
Over 700 million people, speak English, as a foreign language.
Did you know that of all the world's languages (over 2,700) English is arguably the richest in vocabulary; and that the Oxford English Dictionary lists about 500,000 words, and there are a half-million technical and scientific terms still uncatalogued?
Three-quarters of the world's mail, telexes and cables are in English.
More than half of the world's technical and scientific periodicals are in English
English is the medium for 80% of the information stored in the world's computers
English is the language of navigation, aviation and of Christianity; it is the ecumenical language of the World Council of Churches
Five of the largest broadcasting companies in the world (CBS, NBC, ABC, BBC and CBC) transmit in English, reaching millions and millions of people all over the world.
So while it might be correct to say that many inhabitants of the planet dont HAVE to know english, they had BETTER if they want to participate in any of the fun stuff.

User avatar
The Hen
Posts: 5941
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:56 am

Re: BC is so BC

Post by The Hen »

So, back to the OP, will the world ever be able to tell the time without Jesus?

Image


AND, is it necessary?
Bah!

Image

Post Reply