More Of The Same (RC Church Cover-Up)

[dgs49]

This whole campaign has been a boon to anti-Catholic bigots like rube and AJD.

Let's see, 4,000 cases. 50+ years, a couple billion catholics, a couple hundred thousand priests.

4,000 cases, some of which proved untrue or uncorroborated.

But make them public, right? Yeah, the would be a rational thing to do.

Assholes.

[Gob]

Let's see, 4,000 cases. 50+ years, a

4,000 cases of sex abuse by priests on children have been investigated during the last ten years.

[Sean]

Dave, I couldn't give a rattling fuck how many years, Catholics or priests were involved. 4,000 cases is 4,000 too many!

[Andrew D]

However victim groups have ... again called on the Vatican to release its secret archive of documents which details thousands of cases and which it has so far refused to do.

We should just take the Vatican's "secret archives". And everything else that the Vatican holds.

(Emphasis added.)

The Roman Catholic Church's "secret archive" of documents concerning child-abuse cases must be only a tiny fraction of the "secret archives" held by the Vatican. And the total of all of the "secret archives" must be only a small part of what the Vatican holds.

Although the child-abuse cases are undeniably important, much of what the Vatican holds must be of far greater importance in the long run. Two-hundred years from now, all of the people who have, as of this moment, been abused by Roman Catholic Priests will be dead. As will their abusers. As will the people who covered up those abuses.

But just the Archivum Secretum Vaticanum (or Archivio Segreto Vaticano) reportedly, including by the archive itself occupies fifty-two linear miles of shelves. And that is just the papal "secret" (i.e., private) archive.

God only knows (ha, ha) how much stuff there is in the Vatican's other archives. The documents held by the Vatican could -- indeed, it is difficult to imagine how they could not -- shed light on history stretching back at least one millennium.

Some of that history would, no doubt, be unfavorable toward the Roman Catholic Church. But some of it might be quite favorable toward the Roman Catholic Church. Without access to it, we have no way to know.

The universe of documents to which the Vatican permits acess is far less than complete. And access is extremely limited.

And the documents are only part of the Vatican's holdings. There is also the art. And more art. And even more art.

I have defended the Roman Catholic Church on various occasions against various charges. It seems to me that those are not the actions of an "anti-Catholic bigtot[]."

But I also refuse to turn a blind eye to the Roman Catholic Church's crimes. And some of those crimes dwarf covering up priests' sexually abusing children. Again, not that such abuses are unimportant, but some of the Roman Catholic Church's crimes include the extermination of whole peoples. Horrible as sexually abusing children is, I think that it pales beside mass murder.

The Roman Catholic Church's genocide against the native peoples of California -- which is by no means the Roman Catholic Church's only genocide -- abundantly justifies the confiscation of everything which the Roman Catholic Church possesses. The entire holdings of the Vatican (archives, other documents, art, real property, etc.) should be taken.

[loCAtek]

Clergy protect their own. When a cleric is found diddling or raping a child, the other clerics will do their best to protect him.

Clergy apparently don't worry about the kids they fuck up, they just to make sure that no more of them are found guilty.

Humans protect their own. When a person is found diddling or raping a child, the other people will do their best to protect him.

People don't worry about the kids they fuck up, they just to make sure that no more of them are found guilty.

To assert that this only happens in one segment of human society is an ignorant, discriminatory myth.

[Scooter]

Care to provide any examples of someone other than clergy who was protected from prosecution for child rape by other people?

[loCAtek]

My Grandfather.

[loCAtek]

A foster child's account of a fireman captain's abuse. Etc. Etc.

One in 3-4 girls and one in 6 boys have been molested by age 18 …
Boys report less than girls
70-90% of the molesters are family members or friends
62% of pregnant and parenting teens were raped, molested, or sexually assaulted prior to their first pregnancy.
Source

This statistic doesn't specify, nor needs to, what occupation the molesters held. Same as homosexuality across the population, the percentage of child sex offenders is consistant to what ever social group.

[Scooter]

Seeing as how it happened so close to home, your slavish insistence on excusing and rationalizing the coverups of child raping priests is completely baffling.

[Scooter]

the percentage of child sex offenders is consistant to what ever social group.

So you keep saying, but never any proof...

[loCAtek]

I never said I condoned the behavior, I just don't agree with the discrimination of clergy as if they were the only guilty parties.

[Scooter]

Fine. You show me another organization-wide coverup of widespread child rape and I'll be first in line to condemn it.

I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to find one.

[loCAtek]

Teachers


ETA: Wiki; In U.S. schools, educators who offend range in age from "21 to 75 years old, with an average age of 28" with teachers, coaches, substitute teachers, bus drivers and teacher's aides (in that order) totaling 69% of the offenders.[107]

[loCAtek]

Parents

[loCAtek]

Doctors

[Scooter]

And absolutely nothing about systematic attempts to cover up child rape, as the RC Church did for decades.

Didn't think so. Sorry, no cookie.

[Scooter]

And your earlier comment tells me this issue hits you up close and personal, which would explain your completely off the wall opinions about it, so I won't be rubbing any more salt in that particular wound.

[Sean]

So far lo you have provided nothing but anecdotal evidence and completely unsubstantiated claims of mass cover ups by firemen, teachers, doctors and parents.

So far, it appears that dentists are in the clear.

You've got to admit... as arguments go, it's not the most compelling.

[dgs49]

Reboot.

EVERY ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD that employs people who work closely with children has the problem of employing or accepting as volunteers those who want access to the children for nefarious purposes. This includes every organized and unorganized church, every school system in the world, orphanages, the Boy Scouts, the Boys Clubs of America, the YMCA, and on and on. It includes neighborhood sports programs, dance programs, even karate and judo classes. EVERY FUCKING DAY, we see examples of this phenomenon. It is absolutely universal, but because the Catholic Church has been the greatest provider of non-government schools, orphanages, hospitals, and such, most of the major scandals (orphanages in Canada, Australia, Ireland, etc) have had Church institutions at the center of them. The latest blowup is at some grade school in L.A. (a public school, in this case).

There is no known test to weed out such bastards, although most organizations are working harder now to weed them out than they did in the past.

NO ONE denies that such people exist, or that what they do is despicable. No one. Not me, or the Pope, or any of the Bishops whose conduct has been exposed over the past 40 years. No one.

The first reaction of EVERY ORGANIZATION that hears an accusation or hint that some such activity has occurred is to try to minimize the damage and embarrassment to the organization. Ever heard of Joe Paterno? Exhibit A. What he did and failed to do was absolutely typical and totally normal. We now consider - rightly - that this attitude and this course of action is unacceptable, possibly criminally and civilly culpable. In the not-too-distant past, however, it would have been passed off as, "of course that's what they did, any school would do the same."

To read the writings of the bigots on this board:

(1) The Catholic Church has been the worst offender, ever.

(2) The Church is the only one that has ever tried to "circle the wagons" when such people are identified.

(3) Every Catholic clergyman or spokesperson is "tainted."

(4) Nothing positive or beneficial that the Church does or has ever done can ever be mentioned without raising the cases of pederasty and coverup.

That is no exaggeration. Just read the threads.

In the past I have tried to point out factors such as,

(1) the long-term psychological damage to victims of child sexual abuse was not always appreciated - indeed many considered it something that a normal kid would simply "grow out of," in due course;

(2) the persistence of such behavior in the perpetrators, despite their being caught and informally punished, was not fully appreciated by anyone until fairly recently; and

(3) Catholic belief in redemption (i.e., the ability of a person to "sin no more"), explains a lot of the transferring of priests from one parish to another. In the eyes of the Bishops (in the early days) once a priest had confessed his sins and promised to reform, the problem was solved.

But all of this is characterized as me trying to excuse or deny the behavior. It's not.

This, my friends, is anti-Catholic bigotry. You can deny it til the cows come home, but that's what it is.

[Guinevere]

Joe Paterno was fired, and rightfully so. The Cardinal of th Archdiocese of Boston was allowed to take a cushy position in Rome, and walked away from it all, while his "flock" were in amazing pain.