Core Values Disdained by Liberals

[Rick]

As for Arkansas, Rubato has it listed as Conservative.

However local and State governmant are (the Northwest corner where all the money is may be different) overwhelmingly Democrat.

I do not debate the birthrate thing...

[rubato]

As for Arkansas, Rubato has it listed as Conservative.

However local and State governmant are (the Northwest corner where all the money is may be different) overwhelmingly Democrat.

I do not debate the birthrate thing...

The south is famous for its Conservative Democrats. These were the group courted by Nixon et al under the "southern strategy" (admitted by the GOP).

The Democratic party has a lot of Conservatives. The Republican party does not tolerate Liberals of any kind. It is an important to differentiate between the two on a this, factual, basis.


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

And just to enhance the joy: we had the annual inventors dinner on Thursday night and I had the most patents filed in 2011!! With 5.

M wife loves this event because she gets to meet a lot of my colleagues.

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

However local and State governmant are (the Northwest corner where all the money is may be different) overwhelmingly Democrat.

Don't try to burden rube with specifics Keld...he can't handle it... his head will explode....

All rube has done here is repeatedly prove over and over that he doesn't know what isolate the variable means, much less what would be required in this case to do it....

Should I tell him what he and any other agenda driven charlatan trying to claim that the incomplete data that they are seizing on, while ignoring any other easily quantifiable factors, somehow "proves" their pre-conceived opinion, would need to do to be able to actually make that claim legitimately? The sort of cross referencing that would have to done with other factors beyond what party governs the state? and the results that they would have to account for?

Naaa....why bother?

He has no interest in trying to determine the truth of the causes for these undesirable social phenomena; it's not like it's anything he really cares about; he just wants to continue to mindlessly repeat the same crap over and over and beat his ideologically driven drum....truth is a completely dis-interesting concept to rube...

Super-simplistic explanations are always appealing to the simple-minded, because it's all their limited intellectual ability is capable of processing; and a super-simplistic explanation that conforms with their pre-existing prejudices is doubly appealing; it's as compelling as a shiny object is to a crow; feeble minded folks are hard-wired to leap at simplistic explanations that seem to confirm what they already believed....

And just to enhance the joy: we had the annual inventors dinner on Thursday night and I had the most patents filed in 2011!! With 5.

M wife loves this event because she gets to meet a lot of my colleagues.

ROTFLMAO!!!

Well, then she better get herself another date for the evening....(unless you've been engaged for bus boy duty...)

The only thing funnier than the idea of you as a "scientist" rube, is you as an "inventor"....



Thanks for that rube; I really needed a good laugh, and that whopper really fit the bill....

[rubato]

If you care about the truth it can often be determined:

A study showing how Conservative family values create poverty (which is much higher in the Red states):

http://www.soc.duke.edu/~lkeister/conse ... stians.pdf

Lisa A. Keister
Duke University
Department of Sociology
Box 90008
Durham, NC 27708
Lkeister@soc.duke.edu
September 2007

" ...
Conservative Protestants and Wealth:
How Religion Perpetuates Asset Poverty
ABSTRACT
The association between cultural orientation and material outcomes is fundamental to sociology
research. I contribute to understanding this relationship by exploring how religious affiliation
affects wealth ownership. Specifically, I isolate the reasons that Conservative Protestants (CPs)
accumulate low wealth independent of family background and other traits. I show that low
educational attainment, early fertility, large family size, and low rates of female labor force
participation reduce wealth for CPs. I also propose that there is a direct effect of religion on
wealth. I demonstrate that low rates of asset accumulation reduce total wealth for CPs, and I
identify and model the unique economic values that account for low accumulation. The findings
improve understanding of the mechanisms through which religious beliefs contribute to
inequality.
...

While there is evidence that religion and wealth are related, what is missing is a clear
account of the process by which religion affects the wealth of believers. This paper fills this gap
by studying why Conservative Protestants (CPs) accumulate low wealth. I propose that limited
educational attainment, early fertility, large family size, and low rates of female labor force
participation are important demographic contributors to low CP wealth. I also propose that there
is a direct effect of CP religious belief on wealth net of these demographic behaviors that results
from low rates of asset accumulation over time. I then identify the unique economic values that
follow from CP religious beliefs and that lead to low accumulation. I use the National
2 I use the term Conservative Protestant to refer to the large, more inclusive group of denominations that is
sometimes called Evangelical. Because the term Evangelical can also be used to describe a subset of CPs
(Smith 2000; Woodberry and Smith 1998), it can cause confusion. I use CP to refer to religious
conservatives, not political conservatives.
3
Longitudinal Survey of Youth, 1979 cohort (NLS-Y) and the Economic Values Survey (EVS) to
study these ideas empirically. The NLS-Y provides detailed longitudinal data on family
background, education, adult family traits, and wealth. The EVS contributes comprehensive
measures of the values and religious beliefs that affect wealth.

...

The Value of Education
Low educational attainment is an important reason for low CP wealth. There is longstanding
evidence that religion affects education (Glenn and Hyland 1967; Greeley 1969; Lenski
1961), and recent research shows that CPs complete comparative low levels of schooling (Darnell
and Sherkat 1997; Sherkat and Ellison 1999). CP cultural orientations tend to be at odds with the
approaches of secular schools and universities that propagate secular humanist values (Sikkink
1999) and promote scientific investigation rather than acceptance of divine truths (Darnell and
Sherkat 1997). As a result, some CPs home-school their children or send them to Christian
schools (Sherkat and Ellison 1999). While the majority of Conservative Protestants have
remained involved in public schools (Sherkat and Ellison 1999), they appear to follow advice
from church leaders who discourage attendance at secular colleges and universities. As a result,
educational attainment for CPs is significantly lower than for members of other faiths (Darnell
and Sherkat 1997) declining most noticeably after high school (Lehrer 1999). Because education
is one of the strongest predictors of wealth and because it also affects other correlates of wealth
(e.g., family size, female labor force participation, income), I expect that low educational
attainment reduces wealth for Conservative Protestants. ..."

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

So far a lot of data has shown that conservative family values = teen pregnancy, lower levels of education, higher rates of divorce and thus higher rates of poverty.


The only attempted answer has been unintelligent spew.



yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

So far a lot of data has shown that conservative family values = teen pregnancy, lower levels of education, higher rates of divorce and thus higher rates of poverty.

Of course, nothing of the sort has been shown....

Okay, rube, I'm gonna throw you a bone here and give you an idea of some of the things you'd have to do to actually do what you keep stupidly claiming you have done. To keep this simple (the only way there's a prayer you'll be able to understand it) Let's take a look at one on you list; teen pregnancy:



Now let's take the state you have ranked as the absolute worst in the "proof" for you ersatz pseudo-theory about Conservative governance producing higher rates of teen pregnancy, Mississippi:

The lowest rates of teen pregnancy are in liberal states, the highest rates are in Conservative ones.

51. Mississippi 55.0Conservative

And the one at the very top of your lists of good (ie "Liberal " states) New Hampshire:

1. New Hampshire 15.7 Liberal

(Of course an honest person would characterize New Hampshire as a "purple" rather than a "blue" state but for the sake of argument I'll go with your false characterization to make the point)

List of U.S. states by African-American population

Rank State African-American Population (2010)[1] % African-American

1 MS 1,098,385 37.18
44 NH 15,035 1.22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U. ... population

Now think real hard rube....

Which conclusion sounds more "scientific"?

"Mississippi has the highest rate of teen pregnancy because it is governed by Conservatives"

Or.....

"Mississippi has the highest rate of teen pregnancy because 37% of its population is made up by a demographic sub-group with a 73% rate of teen pregnancy."

The second theory isn't proven either; it would have to be tested further, but it sure has a lot more going for it than the the tautological butt-yank theory you accept as a fact....

This across the board racial gap in teen pregnancy rates (which crosses state lines, be they red, blue, or purple with pink polka-dots) is just one of the factors that your theory would have to account for that it doesn't even address, before it could have even a remote claim to legitimacy. Taking just one set of factors and ignoring all the others is pure hokeum as science and completely intellectually dishonest.

Two thing we've long come to expect from you around here.....

[rubato]

I hand-transcribed the data into an excel spreadsheet and there may be transcription errors.

Teen birth rates for whites are much higher in conservative states than liberal ones. The relationship in the Kaiser data is essentially proven.

_______________________________
http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/ac ... aspx?ind=3
Teen birth rate by race and state.
Teen Births by race (Rate per 1,000) – 2009
Ranked by white teen births:


state …… black …… white
ark …… 79 …… 52 Conservative
Wvir. …… 44 …… 51 Conservative
Miss …… 79 …… 50 Conservative
OK …… 71 …… 50 Conservative
Ky …… 66 …… 48 Conservative
Ala …… 62 …… 42 Conservative
Tenn …… 72 …… 42Conservative
Lo. …… 69 …… 40 Conservative
Wy …… na …… 39 Conservative
S. Car. …… 65 …… 37 Conservative
Ind …… 70 …… 36
Mo …… 70 …… 35 Conservative
Kan …… 74 …… 33 Conservative
Ge. …… 62 …… 32 Conservative
NM …… 36 …… 32 Conservative
Tx …… 63 …… 32 Conservative
NC …… 59 …… 31 Conservative
Ohio …… 74 …… 31
Haw. …… 19 …… 30
Id …… 26 …… 29
Mt …… na …… 29
ariz. …… 47 …… 27
Fl …… 64 …… 27
Io …… 81 …… 27
Nev …… 61 …… 27
al …… 41 …… 26
SD …… 65 …… 26
Or …… 39 …… 25
Me …… 22 …… 24
Ne …… 76 …… 24
Mich. …… 65 …… 23
Va. …… 48 …… 22
Wa …… 41 …… 22
Co …… 45 …… 21
Ut …… 32 …… 21
Del …… 58 …… 20 Liberal
Ill …… 67 …… 20
ND …… na …… 20
Penn …… 74 …… 19 Liberal
Wis …… 85 …… 18 Liberal
Md …… 48 …… 17 Liberal
Ver. …… na …… 17 Liberal
Minn. …… 67 …… 15 Liberal
New Hamp. …… 25 …… 15 Liberal
RI …… 53 …… 15 Liberal
Cal …… 41 …… 14 Liberal
NY …… 37 …… 13 Liberal
Mass …… 43 …… 12 Liberal
conn …… 40 …… 8 Liberal
NJ …… 50 …… 8 Liberal

[rubato]

In the prior table we saw that conservatism (as seen in many other data sets provided) accurately predicts the rates of teen pregnancy in whites.

In this data we see that it is also a predictor of rates of teen pregnancy in blacks, albeit not as wholly one-sided as it is for whites.

States which did not report a rate for blacks due to small sample size were not listed here.


…… state …… black …… White ……
1 Wis …… 85 …… 18 Liberal
2 Io …… 81 …… 27 Conservative
3 ark …… 79 …… 52 Conservative
4 Miss …… 79 …… 50 Conservative
5 Ne …… 76 …… 24 Conservative
6 Kan …… 74 …… 33 Conservative
7 Ohio …… 74 …… 31 Liberal
8 Penn …… 74 …… 19 Liberal
9 Tenn …… 72 …… 42 Conservative
10 OK …… 71 …… 50 Conservative
11 Ind …… 70 …… 36 Liberal
12 Mo …… 70 …… 35 Conservative
13 Lo. …… 69 …… 40 Conservative
14 Ill …… 67 …… 20 Liberal
15 Minn. …… 67 …… 15 Liberal
16 Ky …… 66 …… 48 Conservative
17 S. Car. …… 65 …… 37 Conservative
18 SD …… 65 …… 26 Conservative
19 Mich. …… 65 …… 23 Liberal
20 Fl …… 64 …… 27 Conservative
21 Tx …… 63 …… 32 Conservative
22 Ala …… 62 …… 42 Conservative
23 Ge. …… 62 …… 32 Conservative
24 Nev …… 61 …… 27
25 NC …… 59 …… 31 Conservative
26 Del …… 58 …… 20 Liberal
27 RI …… 53 …… 15 Liberal
28 NJ …… 50 …… 8 Liberal
29 Va. …… 48 …… 22
30 Md …… 48 …… 17 Liberal
31 ariz. …… 47 …… 27 Conservative
32 Co …… 45 …… 21 Conservative
33 Wvir. …… 44 …… 51 Conservative
34 Mass …… 43 …… 12 Liberal
35 al …… 41 …… 26 Conservative
36 Wa …… 41 …… 22 Liberal
37 Cal …… 41 …… 14 Liberal
38 conn …… 40 …… 8 Liberal
39 Or …… 39 …… 25 Liberal
40 NY …… 37 …… 13 Liberal
41 NM …… 36 …… 32 Conservative
42 Ut …… 32 …… 21 Mormon
43 Id …… 26 …… 29 Conservative
44 New Hamp. …… 25 …… 15 Liberal
45 Me …… 22 …… 24 Liberal
46 Haw. …… 19 …… 30 Liberal

[rubato]

No handsy-waving bullshit. Just the facts.

And the ignorant racism in LJs world view is just ... well ... expected. Isn't it?

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

I added the data for Hispanic/Latino just for grins. Conservative states still predict all but one of the highest teen birth rates. Although low teen birth rates are not as uniformly Liberal as they are for other groups. This probably has to do with the national origins of Latinos in different states like Florida (Cuban and not very fanatically catholic)

"Mormon" is broken out as a separate group because Mormons actually practice the virtues that most "Christians" only pretend to value and since their behavior is so much better than all other 'Christians' they deserve to be treated separately.


state ………. latino
Ala ………. 111 Conservative
NC ………. 105 Conservative
Tenn ………. 105 Conservative
Georgia ………. 103 Conservative
OK ………. 102 Conservative
Haw. ………. 99 Liberal
Kansas ………. 99 Conservative
Ky ………. 98 Conservative
Ne ………. 98 Conservative
S. Car. ………. 94 Conservative
SD ………. 94 Conservative
Tx ………. 91 Conservative
Ut ………. 91 Mormon
Penn ………. 87
Iowa ………. 86
Co ………. 85
Del ………. 84
Wa ………. 84
Minn. ………. 81
NM ………. 81
Wis ………. 81
Ind ………. 79
Wy ………. 79
ark ………. 77
Id ………. 77
Or ………. 77
ariz. ………. 76
Ohio ………. 75
Md ………. 73
Nev ………. 73
Lo. ………. 70
Mo ………. 69
RI ………. 69 Liberal
conn ………. 68 Liberal
Miss ………. 68 Conservative
ND ………. 68 Conservative
Ill ………. 63 Liberal
Mass ………. 63 Liberal
Mich. ………. 61 Liberal
Va. ………. 61 Conservative
Montana ………. 59 Conservative
Cal ………. 58 Liberal
NJ ………. 55 Liberal
NY ………. 51 Liberal
alaska ………. 47 Conservative
Fl ………. 47 Conservative
New Hamp. ………. 43 Liberal
Wvir. ………. 33 Conservative
Maine ………. 25 Liberal

[rubato]

Kicked ass and took names.

Those who care about having their opinions based on facts will take note.

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Still kicking ass.

Still taking names.

Those whose opinions are not polluted by contact with facts need not care.

yrs,
rubato

[Sean]

Are you feeling neglected Rubey?

[rubato]

Facts are being neglected. A worse thing to those of who care about the truth.

I am watching people deny facts in just the same way they denied that smoking causes cancer and heart attacks and the Republican party denies evolution and global climate change.

And I am underlining it for your benefit and my amusement.



yrs,
rubato

[Sean]

Well you just keep telling yourself that and everything will be just fine.

[rubato]

I care about connecting inputs and outputs in society. When you can prove as overwhelmingly as you can here that there is a connection between religious conservative 'values' and horrifically bad social outcomes, the worst in the G20, you should ask why that is and how can you change it.

"If the people are happy, united, wealthy, and powerful, we presume the rest. We conclude that to be good from whence good is derived."
Edmund Burke (1729–97),

Proving that Liberalism is good. The most liberal areas are the best by nearly all economic and social measures.

If conservatives were intelligent and cared for each other enough to want to reduce their own suffering they would be asking how they can learn from people who do a far better job of organizing society than they do.

They could do this. Their world could be better. But it will never improve if their reaction is to lie and ignore the facts. People who accepted the surgeon general's warning about cigarettes and quit smoking lived longer and healthier lives as a result. Their children and grandchildren their communities benefited from their greater health and prosperity and lower health care costs.

It begins with accepting the data. If you can't do that then you cannot succeed.



yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

You have still proven absolutely nothing that you think you have proven; I'm just tired of dancing with a quadriplegic.

Better ways to spend my time.

[rubato]

See? The morons of the right don't care about facts.

I just think he should move to buttfuck Arkansas and live with his own shit outcomes.

yrs,
rubato

[Jarlaxle]

Would you please OFF YOURSELF already, and put us out of your misery!