Astrophysicist Philosophy

[Econoline]

Sean, she did say "[my bad]" even if you didn't/can't/won't see it. Since you've already made your point and Loca's already backtracked, wouldn't it be simpler to just not respond any more? It seems like in this case Loca is trying to have a rational, civil discussion about what makes a good teacher good, and you (for whatever reason) don't want that, you'd rather just berate her.

[Sean]

Eco mate, what she wrote was this:

...I accidently offered a false choice[my bad]; that either the teacher or the student, had to be 'bad'.

That is a deliberate misrepresentation of what she actually wrote which was:

...as we know: there are no bad students, only bad teachers.

She claimed to have retracted it but then went on to blame teachers for any problems a student may have; which according to her are all down to motivation or the lack thereof. As a teacher, I am not willing to allow somebody who has clearly no idea what she is talking about to belittle my profession in such a way. Imagine if she stated that there was no such thing as a guilty party, only bad defence attorneys who are incapable of persuading a jury that they are innocent... Yes, it sounds ridiculous but it is a fair analogy. I'm betting that a few of our legal eagles would call her out on that just as I'm doing right now. She is being very disingenuous with her words and also seems to be trying out a new passive-aggressive approach.

Mind you, she did actually use the words "my bad" so I will apologise to her in the same spirit.

Lo, [I'm sorry] that you cannot behave like a decent human being. You can call me a cunt all you like but don't try and take me for one...


There we go, all good!

[Econoline]

I generally see passive-aggressive as an improvement over aggressive-aggressive, but hey, maybe that's just me....

It seems to me like Lo's trying to back away from her earlier use of a facile cliche. If you'd just let her do it without expecting an abject and submissive apology--which is obviously not gonna happen (I don't think she ever asked you to apologize, BTW)--then maybe you two could have an interesting discussion.

Or maybe not.

Whatever.

[loCAtek]

For the third time, I said;

That lack of motivation could have been for any number of reasons, or circumstances in his/her life, so that doesn't make the teacher 'bad'.

[Sean]

But she's not actually backing away from it Eco. She's acting like those people who start a sentence, "I'm not a racist but..."

I never expected nor did I ask for any form of apology either (abject, submissive or otherwise), I'm not daft. I don't see passive-aggressive as any kind of improvement, it's a cynical ploy to convince others that you are in fact a wounded victim.

I am also aware that she didn't ask me for an apology... I was making a point.

[Sean]

For the third time, I said;

That lack of motivation could have been for any number of reasons, or circumstances in his/her life, so that doesn't make the teacher 'bad'.

Yeah you did. You also went on to say:

Have you thought about why a student would decide to be disruptive and not want to learn? What would be thier motivation for doing so?

A: Lack of Encouragement; insufficient persuasion and/or hostile environment to learning AKA Bullying.

You are conveniently ignoring that each time I remind you of it.

[Lord Jim]

I generally see passive-aggressive as an improvement over aggressive-aggressive, but hey, maybe that's just me....

Oh man, that is something about which I could not possibly disagree more....this belief about passive-aggresive insults somehow being less offensive then direct ones is a real pet peeve of mine...

As I said a few months ago in an exchange with Meade, I have the exact opposite take:

It has to do with reacting to rather mild provocation with abuse, foul language and petulant righteousness

Well you see Gen'l, we're on completely different planets there...

I don't see insults and provocations that are smarmy, left handed, passive aggressive, or thinly veiled allegories, as "mild"...

In fact I see them as far worse than a "you're a rotten prick" type insult, because the person employing them seeks not only to be insulting and provocative, but also to be so in a dishonest way....

A way in which they can try to maintain "plausible deniability"...a way by which to get in their digs, and then still be able to feign innocence, causing well meaning schmucks folks to dismiss their attacks as "mild", while tut tutting about their targets responding with, "abuse, foul language and petulant righteousness".

(Gwenvita was a 12th degree blackbelt at this technique. She really set the standard... She became one of the most insulting posters at the CSB, but to the best of my knowledge she never posted a single four letter word. )

But in terms of judging which is more offensive....a dishonest little scut who tries to be insulting in ways they don't think they can be held responsible for, or a good old fashioned, up front, in-your-face @W style, "Fuck You!" ....

I find the former far more offensive than the latter....

ETA:

I just wanted to clarify that my comments on this refer to the idea of passive-aggressive insults somehow being less offensive than direct ones as a concept; and not to apply them to this particular exchange. (To be honest, I haven't read through the posts closely enough to offer an informed opinion on this exchange.)

To summarize, I strongly feel that when a person engages in a passive aggressive insult, it is NOT in any way a lessening factor or mitigating factor. All that a person taking that tact has done is add "sneaky" and "dishonest' to "insulting" on the list of things they have done.

[loCAtek]

Yeah you did. You also went on to say:

Have you thought about why a student would decide to be disruptive and not want to learn? What would be thier motivation for doing so?

A: Lack of Encouragement; insufficient persuasion and/or hostile environment to learning AKA Bullying.

You are conveniently ignoring that each time I remind you of it.

Okay, where does it say ...AKA Bullying by a teacher?

[Sean]

Well you have also conveniently ignored my question where I requested clarification:

Those are the reasons you gave for the lack of student motivation. If not the teacher, who else would you suggest could be responsible for these?

Would you care to address it now?

[loCAtek]

Well, in my anecdote about Nathon Fisher, I mentioned that his family members taunted and bullied him; he's specified it was cousins, uncles, close friends and other kids. Unfortunately, he lost his mother, who was the one who encouraged him the most. His brother doesn't even care to watch his videos.
You can imagine, Nate had to put up with a lot of racism as well, which is disrespectfull and discouraging to a person.

These things greatly influenced his behavior at school.

I'm sure there are more reasons that affect student's attitudes at school: divorce, abuse, boredom, etc.


I'd like to mention here, that I'm not limiting the term 'educator' to just schools and classrooms, for children.
Obviously, Prof. Tyson is saying that lectures, discussions, converations, etc. are all places and ways you can have an opportunity to learn something, or an opportunity to teach someone else ...if you're persuasive enough.

[Sean]

Obviously, Prof. Tyson is saying that lectures, discussions, converations, etc. are all places and ways you can have an opportunity to learn something, or an opportunity to teach someone else ...if you're persuasive enough.

Emphasis mine.

I've come to the conclusion that you have absolutely no understanding of what you are typing. I'm not going to waste any more of my time here.

[Gob]

I've come to the conclusion that you have absolutely no understanding of what you are typing.

Slow learner?

[Sean]

I get there eventually...

[Gob]

LOL!!

[Sean]

I've come to the conclusion that you have absolutely no understanding of what you are typing.

Slow learner?

BTW, did you mean that quip in the context of this thread?

Be honest now...

[loCAtek]

Well, I guess you just weren't persuasive enough, sean

Persuasion is the influence of beliefs, attitudes, intentions, motivations, or behaviors.[1] Persuasion is a process aimed at changing a person's (or a group's) attitude or behavior toward some event, idea, object, or other person(s), by using written or spoken words to convey information, feelings, or reasoning, or a combination of them.[2]

Wiki

[Gob]

BTW, did you mean that quip in the context of this thread?

Be honest now...

But of course I did!

Now, when are you going to wise up and stop treating Lo like a serious, involved poster, who wishes to debate?

[Sean]

Sorry dad...

[loCAtek]

No use trying to persuade him, Gob.

[Sean]

I promise not to let her bait me in this thread either...