Catholic, cough up, or you're out!

[dgs49]

As I understand it, employers withhold the percentage automatically, based on the employees indication of what church or religion he belongs to. I also believe that this is one of the drivers in the German government's campaign against Scientology - not wanting to recognize this cult as a "religion," so they would not be subsidizing it.

There is a whole lot of hypocrisy in Germany when it comes to religion. The percentage of adults who actually go to church is minimal. Children go with their mothers for a time, and old farts can be seen in church, but other adults are almost completely absent. The Church is irrelevant in present-day Germany.


It goes without saying that all contributions to any church should be completely voluntary, without State coersion.

[Big RR]

Since it appears the churches pay a fee for the collection of the tax revenues going to them, how would collecting a tax for scientology (or anything else) amount to the German government "subsidizing" it?

[Sue U]

Well, this looks like the best argument for " The Separation of Church and State" I have ever seen...

I think it should go without saying, that the State should not be in the business of collecting "taxes" on the part of the Church...Nor the State be determining how those funds should be dispensed...

I cannot imagine an arrangement more corrupting of the purposes of both the Church and the State, than one where the State is collecting tithes on the part of the Church...

Unless it is exacting taxes against the Church...

"Don't Undermine It, Don't Assist It"...

How's that as an operating principle between "Church and State"?

Seems sensible to me. But then again we're Americans, a notoriously churchy lot.

[dgs49]

A bit of information from Wiki:

Since 1949 the German constitution guarantees freedom of faith and religion. It also states that no one may be discriminated against due to their faith or religious opinions. A state church does not exist in Germany.[17] Religious communities that are of considerable size and stability and are loyal to the constitution can be recognised as "Körperschaften öffentlichen Rechtes" (statutory corporation). This gives them certain privileges, for example being able to give religious instruction in state schools (as enshrined in the German constitution, though some states are exempt from this) and having membership fees collected (for a fee) by the German revenue department as Church tax. It is a surcharge amounting to between 8 or 9% of the income tax. The status mainly applies to the Roman Catholic Church, the mainline Protestant EKD, and Jewish communities. There have been numerous discussions of allowing other religious groups like Jehovah's Witnesses and Muslims into this system as well. The Muslim efforts were hampered by the Muslims' own disorganised state in Germany, with many small rivalling organisations and no central leadership, which does not fit well into a legal frame that was originally created with well-organized, large Christian churches in mind.

Also, there is no First Amendment in Germany, no "wall of separation..."

[Lord Jim]

But then again we're Americans, a notoriously churchy lot.

You know it's kind of funny....

We have this story about a country in Europe collecting taxes for the churches, and another one recently about a controversy involving another European country's subsidies to religious schools....

And yet in this country, where religions don't enjoy any of those sorts of state sponsored benefits, organized religion, (and particularly Christian churches) continues to thrive, while in most European countries, religious participation has been dropping significantly....

Maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere....

[Sue U]

Maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere....

Yes, one apprehended more than 230 years ago by Messrs. Madison and Jefferson.

[rubato]

Since it appears the churches pay a fee for the collection of the tax revenues going to them, how would collecting a tax for scientology (or anything else) amount to the German government "subsidizing" it?

The German government calls Scientology a "cult" and does not collect taxes for them. I have not checked to see their response to the Rev. Moon's church but how you can differentiate between so many "invisible sky-god cults" I don't know. They all look the same to rationalists.


yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

I agree, either collect for all that meet your requirements re number of members and a centralized authority to disburse the monies paid, or collect for none. Who wants the government making a choice of which religions are "real" ones vs cults? Personally, I'd opt for ending this process altogether, but then I'm not a german.

[MajGenl.Meade]

but then I'm not a german.

Thanks to gallant little Britain which stood alone etc. under the firm leadership of King George, Defender of the Faith and collector of the revenues....

[Sean]

Gawd bless 'im!

[Big RR]

But of course, my chest swelled with pride when he rode into battle astride his steed, leading the troops into battle. Wait he didn't?

[oldr_n_wsr]

No, that was El Cid.

[dales]

LOL

(meet CH in person once)

[oldr_n_wsr]

You know whenever someone mentions God in AA (as opposed to "Higher Power") in my mind I see CH in his Moses getup (when he's old) with his staff on a hill ready to hurl lighting bolts down upon us sinners (Catholic education?). Yes, I had a hard time with steps two and three, but eventually found an understanding of a (my) Higher Power.