Lourdes of help

[Andrew D]

People go into comas for years and then reawaken without medical explanation. And also without having been schlepped off to shrines or bathed in "holy water," etc. Are all of those miracles? Or manifestations of the fact that medicine still cannot explain all biological phenomena?

[Gob]

People also claim to have been cured by having been pushed over by Benny Hinn Lo, are these miracles too?

[loCAtek]

Does lack of 'miraculous' make it less of a spiritual experience?

Muslims gather in Mecca every year and throw stones at a pillar; coming back changed persons.

[Gob]

No, lack of honesty makes it a rip off. Does having a "religious experience" tag make it less of one? Is it ok to fool people out of money by claiming to be acting for god? Does that make it any less of a bad thing than any ponzi scheme?

[loCAtek]

Sounds cheaper than medical bills ...but not the point.

[Big RR]

Gob--are people being "fooled out of money" by anyone at Lourdes? I thought the grotto (or whatever it is) and waters are avialable free for all to use? Sure, I guess the city gets some recompense through hotels and restaurant business, but is this any different than any other "tourist attractions" of dubious value (and there many of those throughout the world)?

There is a similar site I have visited in Puerto Rico (not endorsed by the vatican, but to which the afflicted flock anyway), and to see people go there is both appalling and uplifting. For the most part these are people who have exhausted what medical science has to offer and their afflictions, real or imagined, are more or less permanent. It bothers me that people can be so "stupid" (for want of a better word) to come crawling or prostrating themselves or even punishing themselves (I've seen people crawly up the 1 mile or so hill on their knees, e.g.) to be worthy of god's grace or healing or whatever (the self-flagellation seems to be very popular among hispanic catholics, who do it to strike a bargain with god--although why god would want anyone to physically harm him or herself as "payment" for a "favor" is beyond me); but yet I marvel at their faith and the peace it can bring them when the world crashes in on them. Even the thin hope of a miracle can brighten the final days or a dying person in pain (and often the days of their family as well), and IMHO there is a value in that. Sadly, I don't think it's something I could ever subscribe to because of my rationality; but if I were dying and in great pain, I think the faith could give me far more comfort than my rationality would.

But, as for the site in PR, no one is ever charged anything to go there, and the original owner of the land set up a covenant to keep tha area forever open to the public free of any charge. There is a little mission church that accepts donations (in a box at the back--I've never heard anyone ask for it) and the site is maintained and kept by volunteers. There is also a little store run by the owner of the land that sells soft drinks and snacks as well as religious parphenalia. The only restriction recited is that one can take as much water from the grotto as they wish, but they cannot sell it to anyone (only give it away), apparently part of the original covenant to prevent a commercial entityt from coming in and selling bottles of "healing waters".

There are many situations where religions fleece their flocks, but this is not one of them, and from what I understand, neither is Lourdes or Fatima.

[loCAtek]

Very accurate, on the other side of the coin; many 'Hot Springs' and 'Resort Spas' that claim to be purely medicinal, rarely if ever offer the use of the bathes for free.

[Gob]

Gob--are people being "fooled out of money" by anyone at Lourdes? I thought the grotto (or whatever it is) and waters are avialable free for all to use? Sure, I guess the city gets some recompense through hotels and restaurant business, but is this any different than any other "tourist attractions" of dubious value (and there many of those throughout the world)?

.

Yes directly by Lourdes, if you go there you will see it's a huge money making scam (bottles of Lourdes water go for...how much...). As your left footers (Catholics) are heavily into their cheap and tacky "Icons", the place is geared up to sell "official" icons and souvenirs.

The Churches themselves run "healing pilgrimages" from all over Europe, basically expensive holidays sold on the lie idea that healing will occur.

Lourdes is a BIG money making religious rip off.

(But hysterically funny if you are not a believer, trust me on this.)

[Gob]

Gob--are people being "fooled out of money" by anyone at Lourdes? I thought the grotto (or whatever it is) and waters are avialable free for all to use? Sure, I guess the city gets some recompense through hotels and restaurant business, but is this any different than any other "tourist attractions" of dubious value (and there many of those throughout the world)?

.

Yes directly by Lourdes, if you go there you will see it's a huge money making scam (bottles of Lourdes water go for...how much...). As your left footers (Catholics) are heavily into their cheap and tacky "Icons", the place is geared up to sell "official" icons and souvenirs.

The Churches themselves run "healing pilgrimages" from all over Europe, basically expensive holidays sold on the lie idea that healing will occur.

Lourdes is a BIG money making religious rip off.

http://www.directfromlourdes.com/

Welcome to
Direct From Lourdes

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Celebrating the Lourdes Apparitions of Our Lady, which began 152 years ago on
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Lourdes Catholic Gifts containing Holy Water from the spring at the Grotto

As well as providing a Lourdes shopping experience, we also provide FREE prayer delivering and candle lighting services for all our customers. It is a catholic tradition here to light candles in memory and in hope, there is also a prayer box, next to the Our Lady of Lourdes statue at the grotto, where prayers can be deposited (all prayers are read by one of the Priests and they try to read out as many as possible at Mass).



If you would like any prayers delivering, candles lit, additional details regarding Lourdes shopping or more information on Catholicism, please do not hesitate to contact us at our religious shop, providing full details.



We are proud to announce that our online UK Catholic Gift Shop is now open for shopping, the products available to buy on this new website are the same as those for sale in our catholic shop and all the Catholic Gifts are in £ sterling.
Religious Gifts Catholic Gift Store

Thousands of unexplained healings and miracles have been recorded and associated to the Lourdes Water, since the first healing, of Catherine Latapie on March 1st 1858.

There are more people who visit the Lourdes than visit the Vatican each year, over 6 million Christian pilgrims from all faiths, not just Catholic embark upon the pilgrimage to visit the Grotto (Grotte de Massabielle) next to the church in the holy city, this was the site of the apparitions of the Virgin Mary to Saint Bernadette Soubirous, irrespective of their own religious beliefs / religion. Many people bottle the miraculous holy water to keep for themselves, they also give the bottles of holy water as religious gifts to loved ones and give the water to help cure the sick.

Mrs S, Washington, USA - "It would only be by a miracle that I would ever travel to Lourdes so I appreciate having a little bit of Lourdes come to me. Thank-you, you have no idea how much this means to me"

This is online I know, but typical of the Lourdes scams.

(But hysterically funny if you are not a believer, trust me on this.)

[loCAtek]

About as funny as Viagra spam: a secular scientific scam. I don't get daily email from Lourdes.

[Big RR]

if you go there you will see it's a huge money making scam (bottles of Lourdes water go for...how much...).

Prior to the online ad you posted, I had never heard of bottle of water being sold; if the persons who run the shrine (or whatever it is) permit this, it is indeed wrong.

As your left footers (Catholics) are heavily into their cheap and tacky "Icons", the place is geared up to sell "official" icons and souvenirs.

Is this any different from the cheap and tacky souvenirs sold in Wahington, DC, or London, or Madrid, or Paris, or New York, or ...? Tourism generally involves cheap souvenirs, and many tourists go out of their way to buy them.

The Churches themselves run "healing pilgrimages" from all over Europe, basically expensive holidays sold on the lie idea that healing will occur.

I'd like to see those advertisements, as I doubt they can claim anything about healing withiout running afoul of public health laws. And as for holidays, are these any different than going to the Vatican, or Paris, or New York, or whatever to see the sights? Clearly there are some who will travel to Lourdes hoping for a miracle, but then that's there free choice, isn't it? And what does the "tour" charge pay for that isn't included in any other tour; if they are paying to be healed, or paying a large sum of money the site at Lourdes for the ability to go to the grotto, then I agree with you that people are being fleeced; but if people are just paying for transportation and lodging and guide services, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Indeed, I would bet many go to Loudes who just want to see the place; I was in Prtugal once and took a side trip to see Fatima because of the history surrounding it even though I don't believe anything regarding any appartion or healing (I also went to the Valley of the Fallen in Spain, basically a monument to Franco and fascism, even though I detested both).

Code: Select all

Lourdes is a BIG money making religious rip off.

Who is making the money? Is it anymore of a money making proposition than the Eifel Tower, the Statue of Liberty, Ground Zero, or the Tower of London. Guides might be making money, but are the sites?

[Gob]

Your pint is valid to a degree BigRR, in effect it is nothing more than a tourist destination. But ...why... is it a tourist destination? National monument? Capital city? Natural phenomena? Nope...

Following the reports that Our Lady of Lourdes had appeared to Bernadette Soubirous on a total of eighteen occasions, Lourdes has developed into a major place of Roman Catholic pilgrimage and of alleged miraculous healings. The 150th Jubilee of the first apparition took place on 11 February 2008 with an outdoor mass attended by approximately 45,000 pilgrims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes

Someone with schizophrenia had visual hallucinations there.

http://www.bestcatholic.com/lourdes.shtml

Lourdes

Day 1 - Depart USA
Depart on a transatlantic flight to Lourdes, France.

Day 2 - Lourdes
Arrive Paris and transfer to Lourdes, arriving at the greatest pilgrimage center in the world! It was here that Bernadette Soubirous witnessed the apparition of the Virgin Mary; near the site of the vision a curative spring miraculously appeared. Millions of pilgrims journey to Lourdes each year to bathe in the miraculous waters. (B/D)

Day 3 - Lourdes
After breakfast tour the Basilica of Pius X ~ the largest underground church in the world. Visit the Chapel of St. Bernadette, where she received her first Holy Communion, the Parish Church with the Baptismal Font where she was baptized and the humble “Cahot” (jail) where her family lived at the time of the apparitions. This afternoon there will be personal time for devotions or to bathe in the Miraculous Healing Waters. Together we will attend the late afternoon Procession of the Blessed Sacrament and the Blessing of the Sick. After dinner, join in the spectacular Candlelight Procession. (B)

Day 4 - Lourdes
After breakfast you will have a full day to experience Lourdes as you wish. Pray at the Grotto, bathe in the Miraculous waters, or visit the many religious shops. Tonight join in the nightly Candlelight Procession. (B)

Day 5 - Lourdes / Paris
After breakfast, we take the TGV express train to Paris. Afternoon arrival in the “City of Lights.” Mass at the Shrine of the Miraculous Medal, where St. Catherine Laboure’s incorrupt body reposes. Tonight dinner at a local French restaurant. (B/D)

Day 6 - Paris
After breakfast we will visit Sacre Coeur Church on Montmarte ~ a shrine to honor the Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, begun by St. Margaret-Mary. Then a tour of the highlights of Paris including Notre-Dame Cathedral, the Eiffel Tower, Palace de la Bastille, and the Arc de Triumph. Dinner and overnight Paris. (B/D)

Day 7 - Paris
After breakfast the day is free to explore this beautiful city. *Optional excursions available to Nevers ~ to visit the convent of St. Gildard, where St. Bernadette’s incorrupt body reposes, Chartres & Lisieux ~ home of St. Therese, the Little Flower, or to Giverney ~ to visit Monte’s home. (B)

Day 8 - USA
After breakfast we depart for the airport for the return flight home. (B/L)

[loCAtek]

Someone with schizophrenia had visual hallucinations there.

And only there? Not consistent with schizophrenia.

The life of Bernadette

[Gob]

I see nothing there that would contradict it Lo?

[loCAtek]

No mention of any medical treatment, but she had 'hallucinations' before the average age of schizophrenia onset; in only one location; with all them being 'positive' when most visual psychosis is negative.

Well, then maybe 'The Lady' cured her schizophrenia at age 14, for she did not have any other visions up to her death at 35.

[Gob]

Psychosis is associated with illnesses that affect the brain (for example, schizophrenia). People affected by psychosis can experience delusions, hallucinations and confused thinking.

Approximately three in 100 people will experience a psychotic episode at some point in their life. Some people only experience a few episodes of psychosis or a brief episode that lasts for a few days or weeks. Others will experience symptoms more frequently, in association with a longer term illness, such as schizophrenia. The first episode of psychosis usually occurs in the late teens or early 20s.

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv ... _explained

[loCAtek]

in association with a longer term illness, such as schizophrenia.

So, she doesn't have schizophrenia now?

[Gob]

I doubt it, she's been dead for years.