CHIPPIN' AWAY

All things philosophical, related to belief and / or religions of any and all sorts.
Personal philosophy welcomed.
Big RR
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by Big RR »

Interesting that your interpretation of Paul or Peter asking for the brothers and sisters to pray for them was just so they would feel a bit better. Presumably they prayed for others so they would feel better too. Guess I didn't know that Paul and Peter thought prayers didn't "work". :shrug
Please expand where you think I said that that; again, all I am saying is that whether I pray myself or my entire church (or the entire world for that matter) prays for me, it will not change the outcome one bit. God is not running an election counting phone calls like on american idol; one prayer means as much as many. So while knowing someone else is praying for me might well make me feel better in a particular situation, I just do not see any further benefit.

Now there may be exceptions to this for situations in which people are lost and do not seek the answers themselves, but the conversation leading up to my post was generally referring to persons praying for friends and others in need of healing who presumably were doing the same for themselves.

edited to add:

This, just for fun:
http://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=whi ... I+pray+for


And again, I have said I do not see anything wrong with praying for someone else; but when we have people organizing a prayer circle or calling up friends and asking for prayers, I do think they are believing the more prayers, the more likely I/we will get what I request.

So let me end this with one question to you; what do you see as the purpose of requesting a group of people to pray for something rather than just praying yourself. I understand you think it is something urged by the bible, but what do you see as its purpose?

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Econoline
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by Econoline »

Why would an omniscient and omnipotent being need any human being to tell him what to do? The much-maligned and misunderstood Roman Catholic practice of praying to the saints almost makes more sense to me.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Well, I can't agree to the formula of asking other people to pray "rather than just praying (my)self". You probably mean "in addition to praying yourself"? If that's so, then first I have to respond by saying that I don't - at least, not most of the time. Once in a while I've asked people to pray for the endurance of my faith. I don't always pray that one myself but obviously should. Perhaps I think they might be praying on a day that I forget?

Anyway, prayer isn't (or should not be) an issuance of demands on God with the requirement that they be answered as positively as we wish they would be. They are not "persuasions" - hence you and I agree that the number of voices does not make prayer either more or less "effective".

But what is the purpose of prayer anyway? (Adoration, Confession, Thanksgiving, Supplication). Communication with God... is that all? Is it not, like any spiritual discipline, to be part of his perfection of us? In other words, my dwelling in communication with God about my concern for another, my love for another, my compassion for another - does that not in itself shape my heart? Perhaps the "answer" to such a prayer is that I should do something (in addition to praying). Perhaps in most cases it is simply that the discipline of concentrating not just on self leads to a more compassionate presence in the world.

Or may be it is, as Jesus says it should be, that persistence in prayer brings results... what kind of results we may be surprised to discover. Prayer is, I suppose, a participation by believers in the performance of God's will.

I don't know if that's usefully responsive.

(Econoline - don't be facetious. God does not need to be told, and is not told, "what to do")
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Big RR
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by Big RR »

You raise some useful question Meade which deserve some thought. Thanks.

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

All I know is that if I don't pray/talk/listen every morning to my higher power, I don't "feel" right that day.
They only thing I do ask for is that the obsession to drink stay away. Everything else is in the "watch over" category. And at the end I say "your will, not mine, be done".

ETA
Perhaps in most cases it is simply that the discipline of concentrating not just on self leads to a more compassionate presence in the world.
:ok :clap:

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Econoline
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by Econoline »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:(Econoline - don't be facetious. God does not need to be told, and is not told, "what to do")
Well, I've already admitted I don't understand what prayer is or what it's for... :?

ETA: You want facetious? Meet Lou and Peter Berryman.


Oh wait...that's not facetious, that's serious.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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TPFKA@W
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by TPFKA@W »

Lord Jim wrote:
I don't know much about Wicca.
So you haven't painted yourself blue and danced naked in the moonlight? 8-)
I had no idea doing that had anything to do with Wicca. I will have to cease and desist. :nana

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Guinevere
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by Guinevere »

You're mixing your pagans, LJ. The Britons painted themselves with woad (blue) to make themselves hideous and fierce. Some of the celts may have used blue paint in religious ritual. And they all danced, naked, clothed, or in between.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

wesw
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by wesw »

the Britons were celts, no?

wesw
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Re: CHIPPIN' AWAY

Post by wesw »

the picts would have been in Scotland then I think.....

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