But hey, what would he know?

[Scooter]

I'm not aware of any anti-discrimination statute that protects people from discrimination on the basis of the football teams they support, are you? So where would the problem be in refusing?

[TPFKA@W]

"I'm a baker in DC, and somebody is insisting that I bake a cake with a "Cowboys" logo on it..."

Do you mean bare-assed wearing only chaps?

[Lord Jim]

[TPFKA@W]

The only thing wrong I can see is that those fine asses are on gay men. Wasteful from a feminine POV.

[Sue U]

I'm not aware of any anti-discrimination statute that protects people from discrimination on the basis of the football teams they support, are you? So where would the problem be in refusing?

Nor is this (or the swasitka) an issue of the "religious liberty" of the baker.

The whole "religious liberty" argument is ridiculous, if not an outright sham. No one's religious liberty is being infringed by decorating a cake or making flower arrangements or whatever. You are in business providing goods and services to the public, and if sexual-orientation discrimination is illegal, you shouldn't be permitted to discriminate on the basis of a customer's sexual orientation. Decorating a cake or arranging flowers or selling party goods or booze or whatever for use at a wedding does not force anyone to "believe" anything contrary to their religious opinions and is not any kind of coerced personal "endorsement" of anything.

[Big RR]

Stop making sense Sue.

[Sue U]

I know, it's out of fashion this year.

[kmccune]

I think MR Madison was talking about about state mandated and sanctioned religion (used for control of the proletariat ) .

[Scooter]

Well let's start with the fact that he actually did use the phrase "separation of church and state", as did others among the Founders, so it is not, as many would have us believe, an invention of the late 20th century.

[Lord Jim]

Right, it's just the grossly over broad interpretation of it, well beyond anything the founding father's intended, that is a mid-late 20th century invention...

[Big RR]

On the other hand, I don't think even in Madison's time that someone could say "I don't have to obey that law because I believe my god doesn't want me to", which is what the religious liberty people claim they have a right to do.

Now the right to certain exemptions based on religious beliefs. has been expanded more broadly throughout our history, e.g. conscientious objectors were exempted from conscription into the military (or at least the part of the military that fought), but this was hardly limited to the 20th century.

grossly over broad interpretation of it

You mean like Hobby Lobby giving a corporation the right to a religious belief?

[Burning Petard]

I have long been puzzled by the public prayers at NASCAR races, High School football games, other similar gatherings. The pray-ers nearly always purport to be Christian, yet when the source of that religious tradition was asked specifically about how to do prayer, Jesus responded with advise to not do that kind of stuff. See Matthew 6:1-6.

And that Hobby Lobby thing from the Supremes, that corporations can have a religion, and the Citizens United thing that they have a right to spend stockholders money on behalf of a political candidate as free speech. How come then corporations cannot vote?

snailgate

[Scooter]

How come then corporations cannot vote?

Hush! Don't give them any ideas.

[Sue U]

. How come then corporations cannot vote?

Oh they do, they most certainly do -- and in the way that counts the most. (It's with dollars. They vote with dollars. They use many many dollars to get the best government money can buy.)

[BoSoxGal]

[Burning Petard]

Perhaps the Apple Corp can refuse to cooperate with the FBI because it would violate the Corporation's religious scruples?

[Big RR]

Well giving/selling information to the authorities on one man's activities and statements doesn't sit well with Christians, at least since judas, so who knows?

[Scooter]

[Scooter]

[kmccune]

Some of these critters are so pathetic ,especially the "vigilantes " . I'm sorry but I have a problem with having to listen to poor renditions of the American national anthem at the beginning of so called major sporting events .Another thing that bugs me we are we everything but required to pledge fealty to a system that supposedly gives us freedom ? (Freedom to go die in a land were we are hated as interlopers ,pay most of your money to an uncaring govt ) Let me tell you something as (I think it was Samuel that said it ,in the Old Testament ) the peoples problems really started when they got a king .History will repeat itself (barring divine intervention ) as government gets more powerful and corrupt .Its the disconnect man .