Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

All things philosophical, related to belief and / or religions of any and all sorts.
Personal philosophy welcomed.
User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by loCAtek »

Very well, why exactly did you say what you did?
Gob wrote:I;m so glad I don't suffer from religion. :)

'm so glad that any kid the Hatch has won't need an aging child molester in a frock to pour water onto it to "legitimise" it.
You don't want your grandkids to have a godparent; despite the fact that you are one.

You claim you don't believe all clergy are pedophiles, but you fear your future grandchildren will be baptized by aging child molesters.

Why is that, Gob?

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5445
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Jarlaxle »

You don't want your grandkids to have a godparent; despite the fact that you are one.
So am I...so what? It's not like I volunteered for it! I didn't know about it until AFTER it had been done.
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Lord Jim »

Didn't you have to attend the baptism, Jarl?
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Sean
Posts: 5826
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Gold Coast

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Sean »

No LJ, you read about it all the time...

People are drugged and wake up in a bath of ice clutching a big candle! ;) :D
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33646
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Gob »

So lo having embarrassed her self into a corner refuses to explain what she has said, and reverts to the old trick of "you need to explain what you said so I can reinterpret what I said."

OK, LO

Anyone with half a brain can understand what I said;
I;m so glad I don't suffer from religion. :)
I'm glad I do not suffer religion.
m so glad that any kid the Hatch has won't need an aging child molester in a frock to pour water onto it to "legitimise" it.
I'm so glad that we have brought up Hatch in a non-religious household, so she will not feel the need nor pressure nor force to have a "priest" pour water onto the child's head in a religious rite in order for that child to be "legitimized"(Dave Mort's phrase that children are legitimised by this rite,) as it is a gross stupidity and insult to think any child that hasn't had an aging child molester, I'm sorry, "priest" pour water on its head is not legitimate.

loCAtek wrote: You don't want your grandkids to have a godparent; despite the fact that you are one.
That's right. I was asked to be a god parent by people who were having their kids baptised to please their parents, who were provbably only wanting it done as it was "the done thing." None of the kids I am godparent to have attended church since, outside of weddings, I'm glad the tradition is dying out, I will not support it further.
You claim you don't believe all clergy are pedophiles, but you fear your future grandchildren will be baptized by aging child molesters.

Why is that, Gob?
I don;'t fear it you stupid little twat. I was taking the piss out of the "religious" organisation;
Sexual abuse of minors in the priesthood has received significant media attention in Canada, Ireland, the United States, the United Kingdom, Mexico, Belgium, France, and Germany, while cases have been reported throughout the world.

In addition to cases of actual abuse, much of the scandal has focused around members of the Catholic hierarchy who did not report abuse allegations to the civil authorities and who, in many cases, reassigned the offenders to other locations where the alleged predators continued to have contact with minors and had opportunities to continue to sexually abuse children. In defending their actions, some bishops and psychiatrists contended that the prevailing psychology of the times suggested that people could be cured of such behavior through counseling.

Ok, so there it is explained, all your questions answered.

Now then justify these...
loCAtek wrote:
Gob wrote:I;m so glad I don't suffer from religion. :)

'm so glad that any kid the Hatch has won't need an aging child molester in a frock to pour water onto it to "legitimise" it.
Good thing, that's a fairy tale only bigots against religion believe in.

Never mind, you're not her da, anywayZ. :D
loCAtek wrote:Wow, I'm being ignored? You couldn't tell that by the comments, but I'm glad it feeds that need for power, for'ya. For those you listening, or pretending not to...


'Kay, I missed that Gob was talking about his grandkids...

However, the myth is not that there are pedophiles in the clergy but that you'll find them only in the clergy.
That's a twist of religious bigotry. If someone felt so strongly that they should keep their kids (or grandkids) away from occupations that held pedophiles, then they wouldn't send their child to doctors, teachers, nannies, entertainers, boy/girl scouts etc. and just lock them in the family basement...
No wait, child abuse is also committed by the very parents of the children! Drop your kids down a well to protect them, and brick up the mouth.
loCAtek wrote:
Gob wrote:
An yet no one, NO ONE, has stated that pedophiles exist only in the church..
...
No, no one has. Yet, you use that as an excuse to bash religion.
If you cannot explain, then onto ignore you go....
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by loCAtek »

No, you're repeating yourself not explaining yourself.


Do whatever you want; the banner says 'argue' not agree to make nice.

Get over yourselves, already.

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33646
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Gob »

Ok, onto ignore you go.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by loCAtek »

ThX hope your control fX is met. Editec was right, you can't get over yourself.

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5445
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Jarlaxle »

Lord Jim wrote:Didn't you have to attend the baptism, Jarl?
Considering I haven't been to church (thank the fates) in almost 20 years, apparantly not...I was listed on the birth certificate as "godfather".
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Lord Jim »

I was listed on the birth certificate as "godfather".
That really puzzles me....

I've never heard of God Parents being named on a birth certificate....

Are you sure you've got that right?

Was this a Catholic baptism, Jarl?
Last edited by Lord Jim on Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage

Big RR
Posts: 14733
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Big RR »

Actually I was once at an RC baptism where the godmother did not attend and a proxy stood in for her.

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Lord Jim »

Actually I was once at an RC baptism where the godmother did not attend and a proxy stood in for her.
That certainly sounds understandable...

A person could be too sick or too elderly, or for a number of other reasons unable to attend...


But I'm still really puzzled about the idea of the God Parents being listed on the birth certificate....

Aside from the fact that a birth certificate is a secular, legal document, the choice of God Parents frequently isn't made till a number of months after the child is born....
ImageImageImage

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5445
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Jarlaxle »

That's what I was told...I vaguely recall seeing a listing for it on the BC. (This was nine years ago.)
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by loCAtek »

This could be from a very old traditional Church, it used to be the Catholic Church was the only source of 'census' of who was born and who had died. They may have a certificate of all family relations to a newborn.

Unfortunately, that's why I can't trace my roots back much further than my Great-mother, and still no one knows her name. The Church used to keep all those records and many of them were burned down during La Revolución.

dgs49
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:13 pm

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by dgs49 »

Not to be argumentative, Jaraxle, but you are a liar.

There is no fucking way that you could have been named a godparent, and had your name noted on a BAPTISMAL CERTIFICATE (not a Birth Certificate) without your knowledge or consent. And you say this happened twice? Bullshit and bullshit squared.

Gobster, what did I say that led you to the conclusion that I believe someone who has not been baptized is not legitimate? Legitimacy has nothing to do with baptism.

And while the idea that being "illegitimate" (a bastard, as it were) says anything negative about the person himself has thankfully been abandoned to the dustbin of history, it remains a very poor reflection on the parents (or at least one of the parents), who lack the maturity to make an appropriate commitment to the child's wellbeing.

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33646
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Gob »

My bad Dave, you stated the parents had to marry to "legitimise" the kid.
dgs49 wrote:
I have been goading Greg to (1) register and start going to a Church, (2) get married by a JP, if only to legitimize the kid,
Which, in an archaic sense I suppose is true and valid.

Apologies
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

dgs49
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:13 pm

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by dgs49 »

I was thinking more in the LEGAL sense. Unless the couple is married, the father has no obligation to nurture the kid, and his obligation to financially support the kid can only be enforced by a separate court proceeding. In this particular case, the mother decided to give the kid the biological father's last name, but she was under no obligation to do so, and in fact I would have counseled her against it.

UPDATE: Greg's stated reason for not getting married is that he can't afford to purchase a nice engagement ring. Of course he is driving a new Chevy truck and sort-of paying on two mortgages, and running through a lot of beer & cig money, but one has one's priorities, eh?

oldr_n_wsr
Posts: 10838
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:59 am

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

he can't afford to purchase a nice engagement ring.
Well there's a reason. :shrug
When I got married (not because she was pregnant) I couldn't afford a "nice" ring (whatever "nice" means). I bought what I could afford and didn't go into debt to buy it. At the time (26+ years ago) they said one should spend about a months salary on it (I think it was a month) but I paid that "rule" no mind. The diamond wasn't very big (.7 carat) and the setting wasn't the best, but she liked it and when we finally saved some money, we had the diamond re-set into a better setting.

When you are first starting out you have to skimp and save and minimize expenses. We/she didn't get a brand new car until 14 years into our marriage, and that was only after we saved enough to buy it outright. My brand new car came 3 years later.

Big RR
Posts: 14733
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by Big RR »

I was thinking more in the LEGAL sense. Unless the couple is married, the father has no obligation to nurture the kid, and his obligation to financially support the kid can only be enforced by a separate court proceeding.
That sounds a lot like marriage to me; neither parent has an enforceable legal obligation to nurture (but the child can be taken away if one or both does not) and likewise, any financial support obligation would require a court order to enforce. Their may be some criminal sanctions in some states for neglect, but these would apply to all persons having physical custody of the minor child, not just married parents (if they live together, it would be a mutual responsibility).

dgs49
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:13 pm

Re: Marriage, Procreation, & Related Topics

Post by dgs49 »

Engagement rings are a sore subject with me. When I asked my wife to marry me in 1972 I was a full-time college student working 48 hrs/wk (midnight shift) as a security guard. I was also a horrible money manager and had no credit. I spent about $250 on a ring - opal with a crown microscopic diamonds around it - because that's all I could afford. When it was appropriate to "show it off," people would remark on what a lovely ring it was while thinking to themselves, "What a cheap bastard," I suppose.

Around the same time, several of her girl cousins got engaged, and in each and every case the fiance was a full-time student, and their parents paid the cost of the big, flashy diamond ring. My wife has constantly been kind enough to insist to me that she never felt bad or envious because she didn't have a flashy ring, but I know in my heart that every time she looks at it she says to herself, "What a cheap bastard."

But we're still married, so WTF?

I have subsequently bought her diamond rings, etc., but she still wears the engagement ring

Post Reply