Dark comedy

[thestoat]

Keld, Again - not something I said. Please try to read my posts without putting incorrect words in my mouth.

[Rick]

Eminem wasn't playing a wigga - he IS a wigga.

Hmmm...

[thestoat]

Yes, note the 'W'. Hmmm

[Rick]

Seems as though you are implying a distinction without a difference.

But hey that's just me...

[thestoat]

I suspect so

[Rick]

I suspect so

LOL...

[Gob]

Ok, now we've discussed the relative whiteness/blackness of Mr Mathers, what about this?


"Is it possible to play someone of another race in a humorous way without being called "racist" these days?"

[Gob]

As an additional query, I see a number of black and Asian comedians playing up their racial stereotype, is this not reinforcing stereotypes, if so, why is it ok when they do it?

[thestoat]

For me there are 2 different types of racially targeted jokes - those intended to offend and those intended to amuse. I hope the latter will always be possible, but there is a lot of tension out there.

[loCAtek]

Ooo Ooo! I know this one, because I based a tolerance class on this;


There are different levels of intimacy at different levels of human interaction. You don't act and speak the same way to your new boss; as you do to your childhood friend.

Highest levels of intimacy, to lowest are:

Immediate family

Extended family

Close friends

Acquaintance friends

Co-workers

business relationships

community members but otherwise strangers.



So interestingly, you also can't joke at the same level of intimacy with your boss as you do with your close friends; meaning you can kid about yourself and those closest to you, (like those of your family race) because you share a bond. Usually, these bonds are formed by shared experiences that establish trust. If you don't understand another's experiences, you don't share a bond. This misunderstanding can lead to joking from the wrong level of intimacy; which is a form on condescending, or 'talking down to someone' and that's where it becomes offensive.

Note: Lots of kidding is based on going wildly wrong about a person, but that's also a joke about your own ignorance, which is what makes it funny.

[Rick]

Ok, now we've discussed the relative whiteness/blackness of Mr Mathers, what about this?

Have we?

What's a "wigga"?

I've never heard the term before...

[Gob]

But you've been arguing he isn't one?

[Rick]

Actually I was arguing that Mathers didn't grow up in a predominately black neighborhood.

Again based on the information that I had, which is he lived in MO until he was 12, and when he lived in MI he lived in Warren which is overwhelmingly white.

Weasel was the one that introduced the term "wigga" that accompanied his assertion...

[Rick]

I take what I read in the urban dictionary to heart.

Then weasel merely remove an N and added a W.

In a discussion about racism just kinda makes me wonder.

No biggy carry on as if I never posted...


Edited to add:

That should have read "IF"... If I take what I read...

[Gob]

Ok, then that's probably where the unclarity lies.

Wigger is a pejorative slang term for a white person who emulates mannerisms, language, and fashions associated with African American culture – particularly hip hop in the United States, or the Grime/Garage scene in Britain.

In short, it means "white nigger," originally being a slur against the Irish.

The term is considered derogatory due to it being a portmanteau of white and nigger , in addition to its reflecting stereotypes of African American or Black British culture. Wigger can be used in a pejorative manner, with the associated practices regarded as cultural appropriation. It is also often used in a racist manner, not only belittling the person perceived as "acting black", but also demeaning black people and culture by proxy.

Some however, use wigger as a neutral term, or as a light joke - without any racism intended.

The phenomenon of white people adopting stereotypical black mannerisms, speech, and apparel – which in the general case is called allophilia – has appeared in several generations since slavery was abolished in the western world. The concept has been documented in the United States, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia and other white-majority countries.

An early form of this was the white negro in the jazz and swing music scenes of the 1920s and 1930s; as examined in the 1957 Norman Mailer essay, "The White Negro." It was later seen in the Zoot suiter of the 1930s and 1940s; the hipster of the 1940s; and the beatnik and rock and roller of the 1950s.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigger

Wigga


Caucasian that takes great pride in draping him/herself with shiny FUBU, Johnny Blaze, Champion, Wu-Tang and whatever else fake shit they can find at the markets, then pretend they are in the ghetto and call their mates "Dawg" and "Bitch" or "Word Up Niggah".

Prerequisite of wearing an oversized jacket on a stinking hot day.

Me: "look at that fucking wigga he has a jacket and pants that are way too big on and it's fourty-five degrees C"
Mate: "at least he will be easy to run over with all that reflective crap on"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Wigga

[loCAtek]

I brought up the term wigger, to describe Enimnem;

The joke was playing ethnic and cultural stereotypes. I included Borat because it is filmed in the US, and distributed by an American production company, 20th Century Fox.

Eminem is clearly portraying himself as a wigger: a white -igger. The 'w' can also stand for wanna-be;


Don't know if 'Down undah' you have these white kids, trying to be gansta?

It's common to associate him with the term.


Image deleted 'cause it was broken

[alice]

I grabbed at this definition for culture, but there's better ones around:

Culture is a word for people's 'way of life', meaning the way they do things. Different groups of people may have different cultures. A culture is passed on to the next generation by learning, whereas genetics is passed on by heredity. Culture is seen in people's writing, religion, music, clothes, cooking, and in what they do.
The concept of culture is very complicated, and the word has many meanings.[1] The word 'culture' is most commonly used in three senses:
• Excellence of taste in the fine arts and humanities, also known as high culture.
• An integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behaviour.
• The outlook, attitudes, values, goals, and practices shared by a society.
....
Culture can also vary within a region, society or sub group. A workplace may have a specific culture that sets it apart from similar workplaces. A region of a country may have a different culture than the rest of the country. For example, Canada's east coast Maritime region has a different culture than the rest of Canada, which is expressed by different ways of talking, different types of music, and different types of dances.
...

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture
Re locatek:

Hmmm, is he adopting a culture that is not his own? Another way of asking that is: did he have much cultural hertitage to call his own, before he discovered HipHop/Rap? Perhaps he didn't because apparently his father left him when he was but a toddler and his family moved fairly often.

I guess in all fairness anyone can behave culturally any way they like. Most often wiggers are doing it because it's 'cool' at the time, but their heart isn't really in it.

Perhaps, Eminem doesn't intentionally mean to mimic, but is sincere in his integration, because he didn't have much other background, and he was strongly encouraged by his success in that musical style. However, he is doing it for entertainment value, so I may just have strayed off a little bit by including him.

You referred to "mimicry of other cultural stereotypes", and said "Eminem is clearly portraying himself as a wigger: a white -igger". I think you're missing a relevant point, in that Eminem wasn't "portraying himself" as anything, and didn't "adopt" any culture that wasn't "his own".
The story of 8 mile was a movie version relating to a period of his life where he developed his skills in, and found success in, rap music. Eminem wasn't "adopting" a culture - it was part of his way of life, and he was immersed in, and a part of, the local culture of the region he lived in at that time.
Just because rap is predominantly associated with "black culture" doesn't mean a person has to be "black" to have experienced that way of life and that culture.

You refer to your friends who grew up in a "black neighbourhood" and seemed to put down the friend who blended in with the culture of the area he grew up in. To presume that someone has to be "black" to be able to be 'part' of the culture is not only helping to entrench stereotypes, it's also racial discrimination.

Racial discrimination typically points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people, although anyone may be discriminated against on an ethnic or cultural basis, independently of their somatic differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnicity discrimination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racist_discrimination



Re Gob:

Ok, now we've discussed the relative whiteness/blackness of Mr Mathers, what about this?


"Is it possible to play someone of another race in a humorous way without being called "racist" these days?"

I agree with thestoats response .
Unfortunately it seems that there is a lot more over-PC-sensitivity now, and a lot more Agenda-ridden and political outcry.
I do think that a person can still play up their own racial stereotype and get away with it because that doesn't create the same 'ammunition' for the Agenda-ridden outcry as someone playing up other racial stereotypes.

There used to be a successful comedian in Australia whose name I've forgotten - Eddie someone??. he was disabled - and the whole basis of his stand up comedy routine was making jokes about his and other disabilities. He got away with some quite biting jokes. He was able to get away with it because he had a disability and therefore obviously had an inside understanding of life for a disabled person. But if he hadn't been so obviously disabled he would have been labelled insensitive and there would have been an outcry, including from groups claiming to represent the interests of the disabled.

[Gob]

Spot on Alice...

[Rick]

One doesn't necessarily have to be PC to object to tasteless humor.

If indeed it was funny at all.

I've not watched it...

[Gob]

One doesn't necessarily have to be PC to object to tasteless humor.

If indeed it was funny at all.

Here's the nub though, if it's funny, but not "PC" is it still funny? I'd argue, as others have, that the automatic condemnation for any humour which involves some aspect of race, is unwarranted, and only stirs up trouble.