If god says you're cured, you're cured!

[Scooter]

And the people with HIV he killed by convincing them to go off their meds, what are they, collateral damage?

[Gob]

Prophet TB Joshua
T.B. Joshua is the General Overseer of The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations (SCOAN). The Founder is Jesus Christ! He is just one of those who has humbly submitted to the will of God (Isaiah 6:8).

Born on June 12th 1963 in Ondo State, Nigeria, T.B. Joshua’s journey is a humbling story of how God raised a young man from a poverty-stricken home to lead an international ministry that would attract thousands worldwide to witness the reality of God’s power today.

From dropping out of secondary school in his first year to working in a poultry farm; from teaching little children while attending evening classes to washing people’s legs on the muddy streets of Lagos; from a forty day fast to receiving a divine call and starting a ministry with a mere eight members – the life of T.B. Joshua is a story of amazing grace and unwavering focus. Today, he is a mentor to presidents yet a friend to the widows and less privileged, a role model to his generation yet a humble and hardworking man, toiling tirelessly for the advancement of God’s kingdom. His story is an encouragement that there is hope for the weak.

Watch the "healing of HIV" videos.

Give “Reach out with the little you have and see whether it will not multiply…”

The Bible says that every man has received something from God that is capable of being planted.

Remember, we should see giving as a reason for our relationship, just as we see receiving as a reason for our relationship as well. Luke 6:38 says that giving is the beginning of receiving. If you give in truth, you are planting seeds that will be multiplied back to you. So, as you give to the Lord, we pray that God will open the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessings that you will not be able to contain it (Malachi 3:6-10).

Reach out with the little you have and see whether it will not multiply!

If you would like to plant into the ministry of The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations and join us in our aim to reach out and touch millions of lives through the Word of God – the Gospel of Jesus Christ, please follow these instructions:

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We wish you God’s abiding Grace in our Lord Jesus Christ.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SEED. Stay in Faith in Him!

[Scooter]

We now know what they get out of performing these "healings".

[loCAtek]

And the people with HIV he killed by convincing them to go off their meds, what are they, collateral damage?

They don't know if it was his church;

"This is happening through a number of churches. We're hearing about more cases of this," AHPN chief Francis Kaikumba said.

AHPN said it believed the Synagogue Church Of All Nations (SCOAN), which has UK headquarters in Southwark, south London, may be one of those involved in such practices.

...that's being investigated. However, in either case, it could not have been Pastor Joshua directly, he's in Nigeria. These reports are of folks in the UK.

[Andrew D]

Could this be an example -- or, perhaps better, an instantiation -- of producing bad by trying to do good?

[Scooter]

Could this be an example -- or, perhaps better, an instantiation -- of producing bad by trying to do good?

No, it's an example of a fraud doing what can be done to make money.

[loCAtek]

The two news reports posted make mention of 'registration' but no mention of a fee.
If you wish to join this church, or any church you may be asked to make a donation or donations; no amount seems to specified. Some other members of the church seem to be healthier for attending; after they already tried treatment at a hospital, which I assume did charge a fee.

As for the UK incidents; that doesn't sound like the MO of the SCOAN. The church of Pastor Joshua appeared to want 'cured' members to see a doctor, sometimes more than once, and get confirmation that they were HIV-, after their treatment.

It may not be miraculous, that some people responded to proper medical attention, but it is care that they otherwise weren't getting.

[Scooter]

The church of Pastor Joshua appeared to want 'cured' members to see a doctor, sometimes more than once, and get confirmation that they were HIV-, after their treatment.

Complete horseshit. Pastor Joshua could not possibly have asked for medical confirmation that an HIV+ person became HIV-, because it never happened to anyone he "treated".

It may not be miraculous, that some people responded to proper medical attention, but it is care that they otherwise weren't getting.

Whatever "care" they may have received, it never resulted in an HIV+ person becoming HIV-.

[Scooter]

The church of Pastor Joshua appeared to want 'cured' members to see a doctor, sometimes more than once, and get confirmation that they were HIV-, after their treatment.

Complete horseshit. Pastor Joshua could not possibly have asked for medical confirmation that an HIV+ person became HIV-, because it never happened to anyone he "treated".

It may not be miraculous, that some people responded to proper medical attention, but it is care that they otherwise weren't getting.

Whatever "care" they may have received, it never resulted in an HIV+ person becoming HIV-.

I mean, if it were true and documented, the guy would have been front page news all over the world. Yet somehow he discovered a cure for HIV and it remains a secret known only to his congregation? I apologize for attributing it to alcohol, if you really believe it, you are clearly the biggest moron that was ever dropped on her head as a baby.

[loCAtek]

Moving the goal posts back;

The point was: that it does not seem to be the usual method of TB Joshua to tell his seekers to stop medication. What is promoted in the videos is that he requests that they get documentation of their 'cure'.

I've made no statements, that these were either miracles or quackery.
All I can establish is that the documents shown are from the 'Ministry of Health' and 'Lagos University Teaching Hospital'. As time permits, I'm researching their credibility.

[Scooter]

Fine, you show me two sets of authenticated documents for a person "treated" by "Pastor Joshua", one showing them to be HIV+ and a subsequent one showing them to be HIV-, and I will sign over everything I own to his ministry.

Because such a thing NEVER happened.

[Gob]

I cannot believe you are even bothering to type that.

[Scooter]

What can I say, I'm partial to shooting fish in barrels.

[thestoat]

I wonder, lo. Is there some act, made by a priest, that you would find repugnant?

[loCAtek]

Yes. Is that black and white enough for you?

[loCAtek]

Fine, you show me two sets of authenticated documents for a person "treated" by "Pastor Joshua", one showing them to be HIV+ and a subsequent one showing them to be HIV-, and I will sign over everything I own to his ministry.

Because such a thing NEVER happened.

Beg your pardon, the website videos contain authentication by 'Ministry of Health' and 'Lagos University Teaching Hospital'. Such a thing did therefore happen. However, you'll now renege by changing the goal posts and saying theirs was not the authentication you wanted, correct?
No worries, about keeping your word, I didn't believe you in the first place.

[Scooter]

I haven't reneged a thing, because said "videos" are not even videos, but .jpg photos, and anyone can print a document that says "Ministry of Health" on it, doesn't mean it came from there.

So just as I thought, you've got nothing, because it never happened.

[Sean]

Would a certificate from the Ministry of Silly Walks convince you Scoot?

[Sean]

The other institute that Pastor Joshua claims a connection with is Lagos University Teaching Hospital. I've just been to their website (most of which seems to be 'under construction') and observed that their motto is "We care GOD heals" (capitalisation theirs...).

I don't think I need to add to that do I?

[loCAtek]

I haven't reneged a thing, because said "videos" are not even videos, but .jpg photos, and anyone can print a document that says "Ministry of Health" on it, doesn't mean it came from there.

So just as I thought, you've got nothing, because it never happened.

The link Gob provided of videos