Report sexual abuse by priests, get castrated

[Scooter]

[As to the second, perhaps you would show me in this thread where I have used petty, vindictive, mean-spirited and cruel personal remarks about you?

What I said was that you had already descended to the level of committing the act that I described. Which is true. If your conscience is so clear about that, then that tail of straw wouldn't be catching fire and burning your ass over it.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Thank you for the explanation . . ..

eta after some thought:

. . . however, it does rather beg the question

The real issue is not the truth or falsehood of the allegation (which is false) but that you felt it necessary to substitute personal abuse for argumentation

Even if it were true, why stoop to such a vindictive and low-class comment?

Meade

[Lord Jim]

Kipling's greatest line:

When you're lying and dying on the Afghan Plain...

And the women come out to cut out what remains;

Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains...

And go to your God like a soldier...

I'm a great fan of Kiplings...

[Scooter]

Thank you for the explanation . . ..

eta after some thought:

. . . however, it does rather beg the question

The real issue is not the truth or falsehood of the allegation (which is false) but that you felt it necessary to substitute personal abuse for argumentation

Even if it were true, why stoop to such a vindictive and low-class comment?

Meade

Your position is all about people being held responsible for the consequences of their own choices (getting on a plane that crashes, walking out of their house and getting hit on the head with a brick that falls from the top of a 20 story building) when they bear absolutely no blame for what happened. I merely extended the argument to another choice made by someone that had repercussions for a being that had no choice.

And I'm sorry if I was mistaken, but I'm sure I read on more than one occasion (when you came here looking for sympathy, or absolution, or perhaps some of each) that there is a dead dog somewhere on this side of the ocean because you chose to live a life on the opposite shore. So the falsehood would be where, exactly? Unless there was a resurrection that none of us has heard about yet...

As to "low class", coming from someone who spends his life looking down his nose at people for eating with a fork in the wrong hand and for whatever else constitutes a faux pas in your snooty circle, I'll take it as a badge of honour.

It's getting close to meal time in South Africa, isn't it? Will dog be on the menu?

[MajGenl.Meade]

You state my position with some distorted emphasis but yes, I do believe that people have a responsiblity toward their family (husband, wife, children) to protect them financially against accidents of life which (usually) are NOT their fault. That is, they cannot be "blamed" for what happened.

The person killed by a brick that falls from (ie detached from) a building may well have a legitimate claim for negligent liability against the building owner or builder; responsibility may be theirs. But if the building was a block of flats and a 35 year old tenant (with no liability insurance and no income) dropped the brick out of the window then the dead person's family would have cause to regret the lack of a parental life insurance policy.

The spouse/children might even blame the parent for NOT having life insurance and thus leaving them exposed. People actually do curse a former spouse for lack of foresight and caring more often than you perhaps have experienced?

Your position appears to indicate that the only permissible or sensible form of insurance is liability coverage - and that a person need not have insurance for events that are not his/her fault. In the real world of course, accidents happen - a pilot going nuts may be (may be, not necessarily is) an event that is as accidental and not blameworthy for both airline and passenger. I recognise that society/law has decided that the airline has the deeper pockets and the principle of risk-spreading is applied etc. as described by Sue. I think the automatic assumption of liability is regrettable for reasons given here. Where guilt (over commission or omission) does not exist there should be no liability.

I use my fork in both right and left hands but suppose that you refer to my teasing (my now fellow) Americans for picking up and putting down their knife after cutting in order to change the fork from left to right? They usually have to use their left hand fingers to push the food onto the fork then of course - whereas the civilized world avoids that by using both knife and fork in the way that Miss Manners commanded.

As to the rest, I am not bothered by a mistake or the factuality of past events but over your purposeful descent into the gutter of spite and venom.

Meade

[BoSoxGal]

This was an interesting debate until Scooter decided to attempt to gain the advantage by turning prick.

I agree with Meade that it was a disappointment to see that, Scooter.

It occurs to me more and more of late that some folks just can't stand the absence of rancor and strife.

[Lord Jim]

Scooter, Gen'l Meade is a very decent and thoughtful person who sacrificed a lot to do something in his golden years that he felt was important to him...

Agree with him or disagree with him; you don't have to be gratuitously vicious towards him because you don't share his world view....

(I say this as a friend; it looks to me like you're going a bit over the top in your responses to Meade...)

ETA

And BTW, I certainly do not share his radical Randian "caveat emptor" view of how things should work...

The Social Contract is a balancing act....

The notion that the individual can act completely autonomously, is, well insane....

But the notion that The State can some how sort things out better in a collective way, is even more insane....

Which is why I'm a Republican...

"Vote GOP...Marginally Less Insane"

[Scooter]

This was an interesting debate until Scooter decided to attempt to gain the advantage by turning prick.

I'm sorry you saw it that way. What I saw was a position that demonstrated complete callousness and an utter disregard for any sense of justice or fairness, and it could not help but remind me of a previous display of what I also saw as complete callousness. But since it it troubling people I'll shut up.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Actually Scooter I'd prefer if you didn't shut up but rather explained how anything I wrote showed callousness and an utter disregard for justice and fairness. These also are false characterizations which are directly opposite to the facts. However, as you wish.

Meade

[rubato]

Since someone mentioned it:

The reason that airline safety is so good is mostly due to effective regulation by the FFA who investigates very thoroughly and at great cost every commercial airline crash, near-miss &c and the application of the 'act on fact' principle.



yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

Nobody needs to "shut up"...

We can have a discussion without bringing painful personal life decisions into the mix...

[dales]

It occurs to me more and more of late that some folks just can't stand the absence of rancor and strife.

That particular law firm went belly-up just a few months ago.

(Sorry, bsg.....not aimed at anyone in the law profession, or ANYONE in particular).

i'll go stand in the corner, now

[Jarlaxle]

Nobody needs to "shut up"...

We can have a discussion without bringing painful personal life decisions into the mix...

Not usually, unfortunately.

[dgs49]

Meade, sorry to intrude, but I think your point is that people should bear responsibilities for their FAULTS (negligence, omissions, intentional wrongful acts), but not generally be held liable for mishaps that were totally unforeseen and without fault or negligence.

While this is a perfectly logical and moral position to take, "society" has decided that those who provide public services (e.g., flying airplanes) should bear the liability for damages, injuries, and death, even if fault cannot be proved. Sometimes, even when the "victim" can be shown to have borne some fault. It can be perverse and irritating at time, eh?

The decision of whether or not to carry life insurance, or otherwise provide for your disability or demise does not mitigate the assigned responsibility of the entity or person providing the public service.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Oh granted - absolutely - that's been my position. I can regret that "it is so" but "it is so" and that's all there is to it.

Meade

[Gob]

AT LEAST five people killed themselves after allegedly being sexually abused by paedophile priest Ronald Pickering between 1960 and 1980, new research says.

The deaths in Melbourne, uncovered by lawyer Judy Courtin, add to the 40 suicides by victims of clergy paedophiles documented in a police report.

The revelations have forced the Victorian Premier, Ted Baillieu, to bring forward plans to respond to the growing church abuse scandal. It is understood the government will announce a broad investigation - potentially with powers to compel witnesses to give evidence - into the criminal abuse of children by religious organisations.

But demands for a full-scale royal commission are unlikely to be met, with the government concerned about the potential cost.

Ms Courtin, who is conducting PhD research for Monash University's law faculty into sexual abuse by the Catholic Church, has uncovered a ''cluster'' of suicides - between five and eight - of suspected victims of Father Pickering, who fled Australia in 1993 before he could be charged.

She said the suicides mostly involve men who were allegedly abused as boys by Pickering when he worked at the Gardenvale parish in Melbourne. ''According to the reports I received, all of these boys were either altar boys, members of the parish choir and/or members of families with whom Pickering would spend time,'' Ms Courtin said.

Yesterday the Victoria Police Deputy Commissioner, Graham Ashton, told 3AW's Neil Mitchell that despite repeated requests from police, the church was not alerting authorities about clergy abuse. ''I can't think of a single referral we've had from the Catholic Church in the last couple of years I've been around,'' he said.

''I've been up there [to the Melbourne Archdiocese] myself and spoken to them about it but they have their own processes that they regard as being robust … our point is we're the ones that make the decision around whether things are criminal or not.''

The Melbourne Archbishop, Denis Hart, said yesterday he did not believe the church's behaviour had contributed to suicides.

He conceded that ''in the past there have been some failures'' but said the suicides reported yesterday were in Ballarat and outside of his jurisdiction.

''I am aware that there is the possibility of a small number of suicides in Melbourne. I don't have details,'' he said.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/suicides ... z1rxUXNI4W

[rubato]

AT LEAST five people killed themselves after allegedly being sexually abused by paedophile priest Ronald Pickering between 1960 and 1980, new research says.
...

The Melbourne Archbishop, Denis Hart, said yesterday he did not believe the church's behaviour had contributed to suicides.

He conceded that ''in the past there have been some failures'' but said the suicides reported yesterday were in Ballarat and outside of his jurisdiction.

''I am aware that there is the possibility of a small number of suicides in Melbourne. I don't have details,'' he said.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/suicides ... z1rxUXNI4W

"did not believe the church's behaviour had contributed to suicides."

The cry of the moral maggot: "mistakes have been made, but not by me"

"... small number of suicides in Melbourne."

One thought that the christian faith taught that individual human lives were precious. Apparently not: as long as we can diminish the evil by saying it was only a 'small number' of raped children who killed themselves. If it's only a few then that's all right!

The whole RC "church" are a suppurating pus-filled boil on humanity.


yrs,
rubato

[RayThom]

... and there you have it, Maxie, a perfect "A6", the Vatican "vocal coach" said to the Vienna Boys' Choir owner. OK, maestro, from the top -- a one, and a two, and a three...

OUCH!

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcccast.htm

Ended? Or so 'they' say.