Are *you* smarter than an atheist?

[MajGenl.Meade]

Preparation for purgatory?

Odd isn't it - Christian Science is neither

[Big RR]

Kind of Big RR. But Calvinism is not a church or religion but a theology. The Synod of Dort was called by Dutch reformed churches, politicians, university profs and so on, along with participants from many European reformed (protestant) churches to settle the Arminian issue. The majority theology of these reformed churches was Calvinistic; God saved who He had predetermined to save. Arminius proposed that all humans could choose to accept God's offer of salvation through grace; free will was the determinant. That's putting it too simply.

I don't think TULIP ever included the word 'predestination' - that concept is under the U and in fact informs the basis of the entire 5 points one way or another.

Total depravity of man - unable to take one step toward salvation; a slave to sin
Unconditional election - God saves those He has elected to save unconditionally (not by their acts)
Limited atonement - Christ died only for the few - not for all men
Irresistible grace - if God wants to save you, you will be saved.
Perserverance of the saints - once saved, always saved

That is very simplistic indeed. Calvin of course was a Frenchman who spent most of his "church time" in Switzerland. His disciple John Knox took "Calvinism" to Scotland. The Church of England I think has tended toward Arminius perhaps but I don't know. Evangelical churches may be either C or A - Billy Graham is a big Arminian; R C Sproul is a big Calvinist and so on.

The predesinarian usually does not believe that "free will" plays any part (other than God's free will of course)

Meade

Meade--point taken; Calvanism is not a religion but spurred on many "reformed" denominations, including the Dutch reformed one.

As for predestination, I can only say what I was taught. Once saved, always saved was lumped in with "irresistable grace", and predestination was taught as something which (at least originally) was thought to be broader than the Unconditional Election, and was a tenet that all things were preordained (although we couldn't necessarily see or understand that plan). Perhaps that was in error (or a peculiarity of the church or soecific denomination I was educated in), but some recognaition of predestination was a basic tenet of that church. But I do think it is fair to say that each denomination put its own spin on the basic premises as "adjusted" by its culture.

Setting aisde the objections of Arminius, I do think many protestant denominations (probably catholicism as well, but I'm not entirely certain) their closets. And this was perverted to justify pretty much anything that the people wanted to do, since that was what god wanted. So one race could enslave or obliterate another because this is what god intended. I think most denominations have moved away from that, but am sure there are still some.

[RayThom]

... pays off. "You answered 31 of 32 questions correctly for a total score of 97%." What I felt was a loaded question "Islam's Holy Book/Qur'an" I answered Holy Book with the idea that qur'an was merely a book of many, yet the one most followed.

As a card carrying member of the Ethical Humanist Society of Philadelphia I know I'll have to try harder in the future. Damn, I feel so ashamed at times.

Oh, and God Bless America!