In which circle of hell to they belong?

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rubato
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In which circle of hell to they belong?

Post by rubato »

"I suppose we can't really judge the past from our point of view, from our lens. All we can do is mark it appropriately and make sure there is a suitable place here where people can come and remember the babies that died."
Well that's some fancy time-shifted moral relativism you got there Father!


http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2014/06/t ... amned.html
Thursday Idiocy on Wednesday: Are Any of the Hierarchs Past and Present in the Catholic Church in Ireland Not Damned?

You gotta think that the only live questions are: How low do they go? In which of Dante's circles do they belong?

Emer O'Toole: Tell us the truth about the children dumped in Galway's mass graves: "Only full disclosure by Ireland's Catholic church...

...can begin to atone for the children who died in its care. Share 12406. The bodies of 796 children, between the ages of two days and nine years old, have been found in a disused sewage tank in Tuam, County Galway. They died between 1925 and 1961 in a mother and baby home under the care of the Bon Secours nuns. Locals have known about the grave since 1975, when two little boys, playing, broke apart the concrete slab covering it and discovered a tomb filled with small skeletons. A parish priest said prayers at the site, and it was sealed once more, the number of bodies below unknown, their names forgotten.

The Tuam historian Catherine Corless... requested records of children's deaths in the home... 800... she checked 100 of these against graveyard burials, and found only one little boy who had been returned to a family plot. The vast majority of the children's remains, it seemed, were in the septic tank.... For those of you unfamiliar with how, until the 1990s, Ireland dealt with unmarried mothers and their children, here it is: the women were incarcerated in state-funded, church-run institutions called mother and baby homes or Magdalene asylums, where they worked to atone for their sins. Their children were taken from them.... Death rates for children in the Tuam mother and baby home, and in similar institutions, were four to five times that of the general population. A health board report from 1944 on the Tuam home describes emaciated, potbellied children, mentally unwell mothers and appalling overcrowding. But, as Corless points out, this was no different from other homes in Ireland. They all had the same mentality: that these women and children should be punished.

Ireland knows.... We know about the abuse women and children suffered at the hands of the clergy... [and the] theocratic Irish state. What we didn't know is that they threw dead children into unmarked mass graves.... Corless expresses surprise that the media were so slow.... If two children were found in an unmarked grave, she observes, it would be news; what about 800? But what is the difference between the wall of lies, denial and secrecy the church constructed to protect its paedophile priests and a concrete slab over the bodies of 796 children neglected to death by nuns? Good people unearth these evil truths, but the church always survives....

The Bon Secours sisters have donated what the Irish TV station RTÉ describes as "a small sum" to the children's graveyard committee. Father Fintan Monaghan, secretary of the Tuam archediocese, says: "I suppose we can't really judge the past from our point of view, from our lens. All we can do is mark it appropriately and make sure there is a suitable place here where people can come and remember the babies that died." Let's not judge the past on our morals, then, but on the morals of the time. Was it OK, in mid-20th century Ireland, to throw the bodies of dead children into sewage tanks? Monaghan is really saying: "don't judge the past at all"....

There were homes throughout Ireland, outrageous child mortality rates in each. Were the Tuam Bon Secours sisters an anomalous, rebellious sect? Or were church practices much the same the country over? If so, how many died in each of these homes? What are their names? Where are their graves? We don't need more platitudinous damage control, but the truth about our history.

yrs,
rubato

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Econoline
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Re: In which circle of hell to they belong?

Post by Econoline »

From salon.com:
Remember all of this the next time someone uses the words “dead babies” to talk about reproductive choice. Tell them there’s a place in Ireland full of dead babies. Babies who were born to women who were exiled from their homes, even if they were pregnant as the result of rape. Babies who were not loved, not cared for, not treated with dignity even when they died. Say that they’ll have a hard time finding that place now, but someday, Catherine Corless hopes, it’ll be easier. She has the names of the children who died at The Home, children whose bodies were cast into the grounds near a septic tank. “I have the full list,” she says, “and it’s going up on a plaque for the site, which we’re fundraising for at the moment. We want it to be bronze so that it weathers better. We want to do it in honor of the children who were left there forgotten for all those years. It’s a scandal.”
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: In which circle of hell to they belong?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Remember all of this the next time someone uses the words “dead babies” to talk about reproductive choice. Tell them there’s a place in Ireland full of dead babies
Would that be ye olde "one wrong makes a right" argument? :roll:
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Lord Jim
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Re: In which circle of hell to they belong?

Post by Lord Jim »

Oh Lord, please tell me that rube is going to take Meade on in this...

I'll put the popcorn in the microwave... 8-)

There's nothing I find more amusing on this board, then watching rube attempt to take Meade on in matters religious...

It really is a thigh slapper... :ok
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rubato
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Re: In which circle of hell to they belong?

Post by rubato »

The Roman Catholic Church; bringing you moral instruction like ;

"Tuez Le Tous, Dieu Reconnaitra Les Siens"

(Kill them all. God will know his own. )

For 800 years!


yrs,
rubato

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Joe Guy
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Re: In which circle of hell to they belong?

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BoSoxGal
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Re: In which circle of hell to they belong?

Post by BoSoxGal »

I personally believe that a fetus is better off aborted than to live out a life such as described in those articles, only to end up dumped in a sewage tank as a final resting place.

If God will damn me to hell for such a belief, then f*** God; in hell I'll be with friends.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Gob
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Re: In which circle of hell to they belong?

Post by Gob »

Far be it for me to be an apologist for the Catholic cult....

Corless, who lives outside Tuam, has been working for several years on records associated with the former St Mary’s mother-and-baby home in the town. Her research has revealed that 796 children, most of them infants, died between 1925 and 1961, the 36 years that the home, run by Bon Secours, existed.

Between 2011 and 2013 Corless paid €4 each time to get the children’s publicly available death certificates. She says the total cost was €3,184. “If I didn’t do it, nobody else would have done it. I had them all by last September.”

The children’s names, ages, places of birth and causes of death were recorded. The average number of deaths over the 36-year period was just over 22 a year. The information recorded on these State- issued certificates has been seen by The Irish Times; the children are marked as having died variously of tuberculosis, convulsions, measles, whooping cough, influenza, bronchitis and meningitis, among other illnesses.

The deaths of these 796 children are not in doubt. Their numbers are a stark reflection of a period in Ireland when infant mortality in general was very much higher than today, particularly in institutions, where infection spread rapidly. At times during those 36 years the Tuam home housed more than 200 children and 100 mothers, plus those who worked there, according to records Corless has found.

What has upset, confused and dismayed her in recent days is the speculative nature of much of the reporting around the story, particularly about what happened to the children after they died. “I never used that word ‘dumped’,” she says again, with distress. “I just wanted those children to be remembered and for their names to go up on a plaque. That was why I did this project, and now it has taken [on] a life of its own.”

In 2012 Corless published an article entitled “The Home” in the annual Journal of the Old Tuam Society. By then she had discovered that the 796 children had died while at St Mary’s, although she did not yet have all of their death certificates.

She also discovered that there were no burial records for the children and that they had not been interred in any of the local public cemeteries. In her article she concludes that many of the children were buried in an unofficial graveyard at the rear of the former home. This small grassy space has been attended for decades by local people, who have planted roses and other flowers there, and put up a grotto in one corner.

Continues here....
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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BoSoxGal
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Re: In which circle of hell to they belong?

Post by BoSoxGal »

It really matters what they do now to honor these babies . . . I visited a beautiful memorialized mass grave on an island near Quebec City, where hundreds died of disease while quarantined while immigrating to Canada from Ireland during the Famine.

However, had those mothers been able to stay with their families instead of sent away to homes, many of those babies would have survived. Sad and senseless.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: In which circle of hell to they belong?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I
f God will damn me to hell for such a belief
Relax. He won't. It's unbelief that's the problem
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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