Prayer discount

All things philosophical, related to belief and / or religions of any and all sorts.
Personal philosophy welcomed.
Post Reply
User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33642
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Prayer discount

Post by Gob »

A North Carolina diner that offers discounts to praying customers has ignited an internet firestorm across the US.

Image


For the past four years, Mary's Gourmet Restaurant in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, had been surprising customers with a 15% discount if they prayed or meditated before meals.

"It could be anything - just taking a moment to push away the world," says Mary Haglund, the owner. "I never asked anyone who they were praying to - that would be silly. I just recognised it as an act of gratitude."

However, it wasn't until customer Jordan Smith shared her receipt with a Christian radio station on 30 July that the diner and its discount went viral.

"There was no signage anywhere that promoted the prayer discount. We just ordered our food and prayed over it once it arrived," says Smith. "It wasn't until the end when they brought the bill over and it said 15% discount for praying in public."

To Smith's surprise, the post received thousands of likes and shares on Facebook.

"It was fun to watch and see how quickly it got popular," Smith says. "As a Christian, it was exciting to see so many people talk about prayer."

Haglund was bombarded with media attention from across the United States.

"I was pretty overwhelmed," she says. "I'm 61 years old so this internet technology blows my mind. It really makes you take a pause because there's a lot of people paying attention."

However, unbeknownst to her the discount may have been a violation of the Civil Rights Act, which was passed in the 1960s to protect US citizens from racial and religious discrimination.

"As a place of public accommodation, the Civil Rights Act requires the diner to offer goods and services, which we interpret to include discounts, without regard to religion, race, and national origin," says Elizabeth Cavell, a staff attorney at the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

Cavell sent a letter to the diner urging it to withdraw the discount.

"Most people can understand how discriminatory discounts are really unfair to the people that are not included in the preferred group," says Ms Cavell.

After receiving the letter, Haglund immediately stopped it, posting a sign on the front door to inform her patrons of the change.

"I applaud the Civil Rights bill and there was no malintent on our part, so we have discontinued the discount," says Haglund.

Smith regrets that her exposing of the discount led to its demise.

"I understand where Mary's coming from. Financially, she doesn't have the means to go further with the lawsuit or legal action," she said. "It's sad, I wish that it could continue to happen because it's such a unique discount."

Cavell says that discriminatory religious discounts, such as the diner's discount for public prayer, occur more frequently in the United States than one would think. She estimates that her foundation sends out 20 letters a year warning private businesses they are violating the Civil Rights Act.



“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Lord Jim »

Ms. Cavell and her cohorts sound like a bunch of in-your-face assholes with way too much time on their hands...
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Guinevere
Posts: 8989
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Guinevere »

Right, because standing up to discrimination makes you nothing but a total ass.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

User avatar
MajGenl.Meade
Posts: 20707
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Groot Brakrivier
Contact:

Re: Prayer discount

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

"Most people can understand how discriminatory discounts are really unfair to the people that are not included in the preferred group," says Ms Cavell.
I wonder if senior discounts are a bit on the discriminatory side? Or discounts for serving members of the armed forces? Or free meals for the under 12s at some motels?

Isn't it odd how the "preferred group" is a small minority who dictate to all? Why can't an atheist be part of a group that appears to meditate or pray before a meal? I know some meditating, (apparently) hell-bound unbelievers.

Does it discriminate against all those who, despite having "faith" of some kind (even meditatey types) don't actually pray or meditate anyway and so don't get the discount?

Would it be discriminatory (a thoroughly good word that's useful when we want to differentiate between cereal or fruit for breakfast, or a toilet and a trombone) to post a sign offering the discount to all those who appear to pray or meditate? I think that's the solution. rubato can thank science and get the deal for example
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Lord Jim »

Most excellent post Gen'l; great points... :ok :clap: :ok :clap:
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Guinevere
Posts: 8989
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Guinevere »

Except you both have an entirely incorrect understanding of the actual law.

Under federal civil rights law (Title II - public accommodations), a place of public accommodation cannot discriminate on the basis of race, religion, national origin, or color. So yes, senior citizen discounts, and discounts for members of the armed forces are OK, if those discounts are offered equally, regardless of race, religion, national origin, or color.

In Title VII (employment practices) -- gender is also included, with race, religion, national origin, and color. Employers cannot discriminate against employees based on any of those characteristics. In 1967, the ADEA (Age Discrimination in Employment Act) was passed which prohibited age discrimination against those over 40 in employment.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

User avatar
Joe Guy
Posts: 13927
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:40 pm
Location: Redweird City, California

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Joe Guy »

Where is the religious discrimination? Were patrons told they had to pay more for a meal if they didn't pray or meditate? Were they told they had to complete a religious prayer or meditation in order to qualify? Were only Christians given the discount?

Just because Christians got all excited about the idea doesn't make that a religious discrimination case. It only shows the motive of the accuser / shit disturber.

User avatar
Econoline
Posts: 9555
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Econoline »

I wonder if a Jewish family saying, "Baruch atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melech haolam, hazan et haolam kulo b'tuvo, b'chein b'chesed uv'rachamim. Hu notein lechem l'chol basar ki l'olam chasdo. Uv'tuvo hagadol tamid lo chasar lanu, v'al yechsar lanu, mazon l'olam va-ed, baavur sh'mo hagadol. Ki hu El zan um'farneis lakol umeitiv lakol, umeichin mazon l'chol b'riyotav asher bara. Baruch atah Adonai, hazan et hakol" after a meal (or a Muslim family saying, "Bismillahi wa 'ala baraka-tillah" before and "Alham do lillah hilla-thee At Amana wa saquana waja 'alana minal Muslimeen" after!) would have automatically received the same discount? Did a prayer have to be in English for the owner of the restaurant to recognize it as a prayer?
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Lord Jim »

Did a prayer have to be in English for the owner of the restaurant to recognize it as a prayer?
Well, since they were giving the discounts to people who didn't say anything at all, (ie "meditating") it wouldn't seem like language played that big a role...
Just because Christians got all excited about the idea doesn't make that a religious discrimination case. It only shows the motive of the accuser / shit disturber.
Precisely.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Econoline
Posts: 9555
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Econoline »

Yeah, I wondered about that "meditating" thing, too.

If an older couple is sitting there silently, are they "meditating"--or just "married for 40 years"??? :mrgreen:
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

rubato
Posts: 14213
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Prayer discount

Post by rubato »

My father prays before every meal without fail. I rather like that about him even though I don't share the custom and in all likelihood never will.




yrs,
rubato

oldr_n_wsr
Posts: 10838
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:59 am

Re: Prayer discount

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

I don't see how this is religious discrimination.
I have no set religion (I was raised Catholic) but I do pray every morning (mostly for strength to get through the day) and every night (thanks for making it through the day and for all good that happened for me that day).
I am trying meditation, but so far I end up dozing off.
:shrug

User avatar
RayThom
Posts: 8604
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Longwood Gardens PA 19348

Re: Prayer discount

Post by RayThom »

oldr_n_wsr wrote:... I have no set religion (I was raised Catholic)...
Because of, or in spite of, being raised Catholic?

Raised Catholic... that's why my PA vehicle tag reads "GUILTY." It's a religion that sets you up for confusion and doubt fearing that everything you do is wrong.

Dominus vobiscum.
Image
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

MGMcAnick
Posts: 1342
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:01 pm
Location: 12 NM from ICT @ 010º

Re: Prayer discount

Post by MGMcAnick »

RayThom wrote:
Raised Catholic... that's why my PA vehicle tag reads "GUILTY."
I've seen a "GUILTY" tag running around here too. I just figured he was a habitual speeder or DUI, wanting to give the cops a break to know he needed to be pulled over for something. You know, pull him over and then figure out why.

As for praying in a restaurant, we do it often, although not every time. Several years ago I went to pay for our lunch for four, and was told that another customer had paid our check. They did not identify the customer. We thought it was probably an older couple who were seated a couple of tables away. They had left a few minutes earlier. The cashier said it was not uncommon for someone to do that in their eatery. She didn't say whether it was the same people.
A friend of Doc's, one of only two B-29 bombers still flying.

Burning Petard
Posts: 4050
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:35 pm
Location: Near Bear, Delaware

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Burning Petard »

This whole thread is strange. The place of public accommodation explained the discount was for public prayer or meditation. I have no idea how that would be defined--what is the public action that prompted the discount? Sitting with head lowered, unmoving for a time? That does not seem to me to be a discrimination based on religion. I think any person could 'meditate' without any religious basis.

On the other hand Jesus seemed to not think very highly of public prayer. See Matthew 6:5

So I would think that the 'bible believers" would thank Ms. Cavell for her intervention.

snailgate

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Jarlaxle »

Ray, did you dredge up this 4-year-dead fossil for any particular REASON?

User avatar
RayThom
Posts: 8604
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Longwood Gardens PA 19348

Prayer Discourse

Post by RayThom »

Jarlaxle wrote:Ray, did you dredge up this 4-year-dead fossil for any particular REASON?
I thought it was timely. In today's political climate it appears like it's Christians against everyone else.

Besides, religion never goes out of style.

Amen.
Image
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

ex-khobar Andy
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:16 am
Location: Louisville KY as of July 2018

Re: Prayer discount

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Actually I am glad Ray did dredge it back up because I don't think I have ever read Title II before. It's pretty clear: it refers to places which offer lodging (hotels and the like, but excluding places which are owner occupied but with fewer than five bedrooms - so I guess that a typical small B&B is free to discriminate as it likes) and restaurants cafes etc principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the property. And that definition notably does not include bars which do not offer food (unless there is a federal definition of food elsewhere which includes alcoholic beverages) so it looks as if a bar is also free to discriminate as it likes. Title II is very narrow.

Is this why the Colorado wedding cake case was, in the end, a First Amendment (freedom of expression) case instead of a civil rights case?

Big RR
Posts: 14053
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: Prayer discount

Post by Big RR »

Andy--if I'm not mistaken, it also includes public places of sale of goods and services and recreation, and I would bet bars would be included there.

Post Reply