Brittany's Choice

[BoSoxGal]

What would you choose? Should you have the right to make a choice?

[MajGenl.Meade]

I think that choosing the upstairs bedroom is a mistake. Now he'll have to get rid of that bed. A comfy chair would be optimal. Cheaper to replace.

But seriously, I couldn't aid or abet such an act (he said bravely, not being asked to do so) but prefer that people in this position should have the option of not making a public mess (jumping off roofs, etc.) or awful failure (missed gunshots, etc.). It seems to me that God has no condemnation but only love for people in this position (that is, in reference to that old 'self-murder' understanding of some sects).

[TPFKA@W]

My body, my choice.

[TPFKA@W]

You know, I have lost track of how many people I have watched rot to death from cancer.
I have come away from it realizing how many things there are worse than a quick merciful death.

It's her choice and everyone else needs to STFU.

[wesw]

yeah, I didn t see anything in the bible that condemns those who kill themselves.

I would say that those who are not terminally ill should hold out as long as they can. things can change. priorities and reasons for self esteem can evolve.

[MajGenl.Meade]

My body, my choice.

Ah, so you must be opposed to bans on cigarette advertisements? Bar licensing hours? Seat belt legislation?

[Crackpot]

There isn't a cost to society associated with a quick planned death.

[MajGenl.Meade]

That wasn't the issue. "my body - my choice" or is that a statement subject to modification by other factors?

[TPFKA@W]

My body, my choice.

Ah, so you must be opposed to bans on cigarette advertisements? Bar licensing hours? Seat belt legislation?

I don't care if you don't wear a seatbelt. OTOH I don't think I should be financially liable for your bad (stupid) choices.

Making the choice to shorten suffering does not equal making ignorant lifestyle choices.

[rubato]

My body, my choice.

Ah, so you must be opposed to bans on cigarette advertisements? Bar licensing hours? Seat belt legislation?

Not very apt or thoughtful comparisons.

As @w hinted personal choice includes having accurate information about that choice. Which allows regulation of cigarette advertising.

Bar licensing hours does not regulate individual drinking which people are free to do 24/7 but social behavior with consequences to the community (JS Mill self vs other directed behavior).

And seat belt legislation regulates behavior within a society which will bear the economic and social consequences of traumatic injury or death including taking care of orphans &c. A society which refused to pay those costs and allowed the injured pauper to die and allowed orphans to die as well would not have the same justification.


yrs,
rubato

[wesw]

our society does allow sick paupers to die, but you wouldn t be aware of that unless you were a pauper or an insurance or hospital executive

[wesw]

I don t mean to accuse all medical workers, but it happens more often than most people realize. when pres. Obama was elected I was happy in a way. one, because my black friends were so happy and two , because I thought we would finally get national health care. instead we received a mandate to enrich the insurance industry further.

[TPFKA@W]

I don t mean to accuse all medical workers, but it happens more often than most people realize. when pres. Obama was elected I was happy in a way. one, because my black friends were so happy and two , because I thought we would finally get national health care. instead we received a mandate to enrich the insurance industry further.

Let me know if you need more tin foil. I will send what I can.

[Joe Guy]

...instead we received a mandate to enrich the insurance industry further.

Those Death Panels that came with Obamacare aren't very nice either.

[wesw]

well your experiences must have been different than mine. I was saved by a wonderful immediate care physician, and by a surgeon, who had my lung out in two weeks, and a great nursing staff. thanks doctor wehburg, or is it wehberg, idk, but either way , thanks.

but I have also seen someone suffering from their 2nd TIA (trans ischemic attack) in two days sent home from the emergency room of the same hospital after being told she was just stressed. not even taking into account the report of the wonderful doctor from the previous evening . thank god for aspirin. I don t believe she would have been treated that way if she had had insurance. I won t even get into the fact that this second doctor was not educated in a developed country.

I also truly believe that the African fellow with ebola would not have been sent home if he had had insurance.

[wesw]

oh yeah I ll take that tin foil.

[wesw]

I am not against universal care at all, I just think the system we adopted is inferior to the systems of other civilized nations

[MajGenl.Meade]

Not very apt or thoughtful comparisons.
yrs,
rubato

That wasn't the issue. "my body - my choice" or is that a statement subject to modification by other factors?

So the answer to the very apt comparative question is: "Yes, the statement 'my body - my choice' is subject to modification by other factors"

Acceptable modifications are utilitarian ones (such as 'cost to society'). All other modifications are unacceptable. I think that's a correct statement. If not, someone please advise.

I also wish to re-emphasize my opinion that 'people in this position should have the option of not making a public mess (jumping off roofs, etc.) or awful failure (missed gunshots, etc.)' The option would be the certain, private and safe means of making this decision and not blowing half one's face off and living as a vegetable.

Thanks for playing rubato

[wesw]

I kept back a supply of opiates for a couple years in case I needed them. I had to use them up recently as I weaned myself off methadone (a work in progress). I took the last of it three days ago now. the side effects began to outweigh the benefits. I ve decided to just use pot to help me deal with pain, the whole dependence thing just got to me.

pot doesn t really help the pain, but it helps to relieve the associated stress.

anyone have a joint?

[wesw]

I don t really know any of you but what the heck, in for a penny in for a pound.

my opioid use wasn t for my cancer. after the first few months, i realized that the pain meds helped my destroyed back, a lot, without stringing me out, if i took the proper dose. i had always avoided meds because of seeing people abuse them in my youth. my back problems began when i was 16 or so and i was working for a brick layer during the summer. one day i picked up a bag of mortar and.....it began. my back probably went out 20-30 times over the years. about 1999, the sciatica began. 20 years of structural steel fabrication, working like a fool the time, took it s toll. by 2012 i was literally working myself to death. i had had my lung out in jan 2010 and worked two more years afterwards. by 2012 i had a bleeding ulcer and was down to 110 pounds. i was in screaming pain by 10 am every morning. two years ago this past july i stopped working in the steel shop. i tried to start my own little handyman business, and squeaked by til it got cold, then the work dried up.

i finally broke down and applied for disability. i qualified but there was a 5 month waiting period til i received any benefits. the shame of not working and not supporting my family was too much for me. i drove away the people i loved because i thought they were better off that way.

during the years of pain i evolved into a rather unpleasant person and used too much alcohol . its a good pain reliever but the downside is that you get drunk. i haven t touched the stuff in two years now.

the shame of not working and the grief i felt when my family fell apart drove me off the deep end. for months i would sit with my methadone and go back and forth between talking myself into and out of suicide. people say suicide is selfish, but i sure didn t feel like i was being selfish. i cried everyday for months. my better half said that i had only cried twice in the past ten years when people had died.

i was living with my son by then, he was 22 and out on his own doing very well. only 3 blocks away from home. that is when holly gave me a stack of books that the library was discarding. in that stack was a book called The Robe. my life began to change after that. i began treating people differently and trying to make up for past mistakes. i was still in the darkest part of my struggle then. i was being destroyed as iwas being re born.

i had an epiphanyof faith soon after, and began reading the bible. i had read thousands of books, but never even cracked that font of knowledge. a few months later i realized that i was a Christian and that jesus had saved me, from myself. it was quite a struggle and involved me being broken down to nothing. realizing that i had been wrong about so much was hard. i had always thought i was too smart to have faith. that religion was for idiots and shysters.

anyway i went to church and found wonderful loving people and found that every sermon reached into my soul those first few months. i was a wretched creature, full of self loathing, and for good reason.

its a lot more complicated than i m able to express, but that s the short story. i fought like heck to save myself and my family and things are good and we are much happier than we ever were before. much poorer too, but it seems we always have enough. odd since we never did before when my income was much higher.

anyway i am sorry for the mean spirited way that i ve behaved here. i ask your forgiveness

wes