Like having a Nazi gathering at the gates of Auschwitz

[Lord Jim]

Face it, these guys are professional politicians and PR people--don't pretend they didn't know exactly what message they were sending by meeting in Orlando.

I'm sorry, but that's simply a logistical impossibility...

ORLANDO, Fla. —With hundreds of protesters gathered outside, Donald Trump addressed a group of pastors Thursday inside the Orange County Convention Center.

http://www.wesh.com/politics/trump-retu ... y/41151918

As was mentioned earlier, Orlando is major convention and event location. I can't seem to find out exactly how many people were in attendance at this conference, but when you add up the pastors, spouses, other family members, organization officials and staff, etc. the total had to be in the hundreds if not in the thousands...

It's simply not possible to book space at the Orange County Convention Center and make all the other arrangements necessary for an event this size, (reserving blocks of hotel rooms, making travel reservations, arranging catering and other support services, etc.) on a two month timeline.

This had to be scheduled many months (if not a year or more) in advance. The idea that somebody woke up the day after the Orlando Massacre and said, "Hey, I have an idea; let's hold our conference in Orlando and really stick it to the gay community" is just not logistically possible.

their decision to piss on the graves of the victims of their vitriol

It seems to me that in this case, where you have a murderer who was born and raised as a Muslim, attended Mosque 4 times a week, made two Pilgrimages to Mecca, and was found to have numerous propaganda videos from ISIS and other radical Jihadi organizations on his computer, (I don't think the authorities found anything from the Westboro Baptist Church) and identified himself that he was motivated by a twisted interpretation of Islam, that it's kind of a stretch to say that he did what he did because he was driven by the rhetoric of some anti-gay Christian ministers...

Christianity of any sort doesn't seem to have been a big influence in this scumbag's life. All the evidence would suggest a different conclusion...

[MajGenl.Meade]

Save your breath, LJ. Ignoring facts such as you present is nothing new for a couple of the resident bigot posters here

[Big RR]

Jim--

This had to be scheduled many months (if not a year or more) in advance. The idea that somebody woke up the day after the Orlando Massacre and said, "Hey, I have an idea; let's hold our conference in Orlando and really stick it to the gay community" is just not logistically possible.

Even if that were the case (and in big venues like Orlando I have seen things scheduled in a number of weeks--I recall the American Chemical Society rescheduled it meeting from San Francisco to Las Vegas in a fairly short time a few years back because of strikes, and I would bet this meeting was much bigger than the one being discussed here), if changing the venue were impossible common decency should dictate to cancel/reschedule the meeting because of the message it would undoubtedly be seen as sending.

[Scooter]

Christianity of any sort doesn't seem to have been a big influence in this scumbag's life. All the evidence would suggest a different conclusion...

I don't distinguish between flavours of poison when all of them have demonstrated the capability to kill.

[Scooter]

Just one example - Mat Staver, from Liberty Counsel (anti-gay hate group) was a featured speaker at this hatefest. He had referred to the vigils conducted in the aftermath of the Pulse massacre as "homosexual love fests".

Does anyone seriously want to argue that the decision to fête him at this hatefest was not a slap in the face to all of those in attendance at any of those vigils who survived the massacre and/or were mourning someone who was murdered?

I have to wonder if the reason for closing the event to the press was to enable those attending to celebrate the extermination of 49 queers and to pray to their loving god that others would be inspired to commit more such massacres.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Is it possible to have an anti-gay group and not be a hate group?
Or does being "anti" something automatically mean you hate that thing?

[Scooter]

"Anti-gay" is a qualifier of the sort of hate group they are. They don't tend to go after Jews or blacks or Catholics. Targetting gays is their bread and butter.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I know about "them", the questions were in general.

[Big RR]

oldr--I don't think anyone can define themselves as anti any person/group and not bear that person or persons some degree of animosity. If I were to say I am anti-immigrant, then I am declaring that I want the immigrants to be stopped or removed; if I were anti-Trump, I'd have similar thoughts about the Donald. So if someone were to say they are anti-gay, what other feeling would they have toward those people? It need not be an overt wishing someone to die, but it would have to at least be that you don't want those people around, or at least not to be around and make themselves seen and heard (in closets might be ok if they keep the noise down). Otherwise, what do people who declare themselves anti-gay stand for?

[Scooter]

One hatemonger gets some of his own back:

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, an organization labeled an anti-LGBT hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, was left homeless by the destructive flooding that has ravaged southern Louisiana this week, killing 11 people and destroying an estimated 40,000 homes.

Perkins, who has claimed that God uses natural disasters such as hurricanes and flooding to punish people for sinning (in particular homosexuals and their supporters), had his own home destroyed by the Lord Almighty. The hate group leader says he was forced to escape his destroyed home by canoe, reports JMG.


Perkins called into his own radio show to talk about the disaster of “biblical proportions” that, according to Perkins, will force his family to live in a camper for the six months it will take to rebuild his home.

- See more at: http://www.thegailygrind.com/2016/08/17 ... kDfyy.dpuf

[rubato]

the hand of god was in it all.


A-Men!

yrs,
rubato

[Bicycle Bill]

oldr--I don't think anyone can define themselves as anti any person/group and not bear that person or persons some degree of animosity. If I were to say I am anti-immigrant, then I am declaring that I want the immigrants to be stopped or removed; if I were anti-Trump, I'd have similar thoughts about the Donald. So if someone were to say they are anti-gay, what other feeling would they have toward those people? It need not be an overt wishing someone to die, but it would have to at least be that you don't want those people around, or at least not to be around and make themselves seen and heard (in closets might be ok if they keep the noise down). Otherwise, what do people who declare themselves anti-gay stand for?

I think the problem is that society is so polarized that if someone is not passionately *FOR* something — GLBTQXYZ rights, Muslims, gun control, birth control, abortion on demand, whatever — it is automatically assumed that the person is then just as deeply *AGAINST* these things.  There is no longer any neutral ground where someone can say "I really could not care less, one way or the other" and actually mean it.

-"BB"-

[Scooter]

Is this what you mean by someone who "could not care less, one way or another".

Pastor refuses to mourn Orlando victims: ‘The tragedy is that more of them didn’t die’

Following the deadliest shooting in U.S. history, a preacher stood at his pulpit Sunday night in Northern California and delivered an impassioned sermon praising the brutal massacre at a gay nightclub in Florida.

Pastor Roger Jimenez from Verity Baptist Church in Sacramento told his congregation that Christians “shouldn’t be mourning the death of 50 sodomites.”

“People say, like: ‘Well, aren’t you sad that 50 sodomites died?’ ” Jimenez said, referencing the initial death toll in Orlando, which authorities later clarified included 49 victims plus the gunman. “Here’s the problem with that. It’s like the equivalent of asking me — what if you asked me: ​’Hey, are you sad that 50 pedophiles were killed today?’

“Um, no, I think that’s great. I think that helps society. You know, I think Orlando, Fla., is a little safer tonight.”

He added: “The tragedy is that more of them didn’t die. The tragedy is — I’m kind of upset that he didn’t finish the job!”

The sermon has drawn scorn from faith leaders, gay rights activists and others who have called it “hateful propaganda” and “bigotry.”

“I condemn his entire presentation,” the Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, a leading Christian conservative and president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference, told Sacramento Bee columnist Marcos Breton.

Jay Brown, spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, told The Washington Post that there is “nothing whatsoever Christian” in the pastor’s sermon.

“He’s preaching hate from the pulpit,” Brown said in a statement. “His words offer no comfort to the survivors of the attack, to the family and friends whose loved ones they’ll never see again.

“And to think of the LGBTQ youth in his own church, it’s simply heartbreaking.”

Members of the LGBT community are not allowed to join Verity Baptist or attend its services, according to the church’s “What We Believe” page. It states the church believes “sodomy” — referring to homosexuality — is “a sin and an abomination before God​ which God punishes with the death penalty.”

“I wish the government would round them all up, put them up against a firing wall, put a firing squad in front of them, and blow their brains out,” Jimenez said during his Sunday sermon, which Verity Baptist posted on its website under the title “the Christian response to the Orlando murders.”

Video of the sermon, uploaded to the church’s YouTube channel, was removed late Monday or early Tuesday “for violating YouTube’s policy on hate speech.” A copy of the video was later uploaded by a different YouTube user.

Jimenez told the Bee on Tuesday that “we’ve received a lot of threats” since his sermon went viral. But, he said, “there are many people out there who agree with what I’m saying.”

“In America, you’re no longer allowed to have an opinion that goes against mainstream society,” Jimenez told the Bee, as controversy swirled around his sermon.

“The whole point that I was making is that if people who God puts the death penalty on die anyway, that’s not something that we necessarily need to be mourning,” he said.

“When people die who deserve to die, it’s not a tragedy,” Jimenez added.

And it's too fucking bad, but there is no neutral ground in this war. You are either with the people like him, or you are with the people he wants to see dead.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Pastor Roger Jimenez from Verity Baptist Church

An appalling person with disgusting anti-Christian views. If I were not a Christian, I'd seriously wish him agony on the earth and eternal torment in the time to come. I regard his attacks on homosexuals, transexuals, etc. equally as attacks against Christ. And that means it's an attack against me and all who believe.

So in this case, what Scooter wrote is correct - you are either with the people like Jimenez or you are with the people he wants to see dead

[Big RR]

oldr--I don't think anyone can define themselves as anti any person/group and not bear that person or persons some degree of animosity. If I were to say I am anti-immigrant, then I am declaring that I want the immigrants to be stopped or removed; if I were anti-Trump, I'd have similar thoughts about the Donald. So if someone were to say they are anti-gay, what other feeling would they have toward those people? It need not be an overt wishing someone to die, but it would have to at least be that you don't want those people around, or at least not to be around and make themselves seen and heard (in closets might be ok if they keep the noise down). Otherwise, what do people who declare themselves anti-gay stand for?

I think the problem is that society is so polarized that if someone is not passionately *FOR* something — GLBTQXYZ rights, Muslims, gun control, birth control, abortion on demand, whatever — it is automatically assumed that the person is then just as deeply *AGAINST* these things.  There is no longer any neutral ground where someone can say "I really could not care less, one way or the other" and actually mean it.

-"BB"-

Bill--the polarization is a problem, but I was responding to a question where a group chooses to define itself as anti-gay; any group that defines itself must hav some degree of ill will to the gay community at large. Sure, there are people who are undecided or don't really care about a particular issue, but then I would guess that those people would not join an anti gay group and would decry the views of Rev (and I use that word with all the irony I can generate) Jimenez. That is the only neutral ground I can see; saying "I don't care if they are killed is in no way neutral).

[Econoline]

"...GLBTQXYZ ..."

I have seen the acronym QUILTBAG used--seriously!

Actually, upon further reflection, I kinda like it: easy to remember, easy to pronounce, and inclusive.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I'm anti-illegal immigrant, but I wish no harm on them.
I am not part of any anti-immigration group but I do petition my politicians about the matter.

I am anti-abortion, but would never tell anyone how they should "care" for their health and their own situation.

I believe one can be anti-homosexual and not be for the killing or even the minor discrimination of gays and can be for their equal rights.

Personally, I think everyone should be treated the same regardless of wether I agree with their sexual makeup, tendencies and choices.

[MajGenl.Meade]

[RayThom]

I'm anti-illegal immigrant, but I wish no harm on them.
I am not part of any anti-immigration group but I do petition my politicians about the matter.
I am anti-abortion, but would never tell anyone how they should "care" for their health and their own situation.
I believe one can be anti-homosexual and not be for the killing or even the minor discrimination of gays and can be for their equal rights.
Personally, I think everyone should be treated the same regardless of whether I agree with their sexual makeup, tendencies and choices.

Hard to disagree with logic. That's tolerance and what secular humanism is all about.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I'm anti-illegal immigrant, but I wish no harm on them.
I am not part of any anti-immigration group but I do petition my politicians about the matter.
I am anti-abortion, but would never tell anyone how they should "care" for their health and their own situation.
I believe one can be anti-homosexual and not be for the killing or even the minor discrimination of gays and can be for their equal rights.
Personally, I think everyone should be treated the same regardless of whether I agree with their sexual makeup, tendencies and choices.

Hard to disagree with logic. That's tolerance and what secular humanism is all about.

Can't disagree only to say that while I am not religious, I do believe in a higher power. Some call it God.
I still have a "mental tic" about the word God, but that is my abnormality (although it is not abnormal in the church basements).
On a purely practical level (being the engineer), God is only one syllable and "higher power" is four, so I find myself using the word God many times when i am speaking at a meeting. For efficiency if nothing else.
But I am spiritual, and pray and meditate daily. Don't understand what I pray to, but I read something the other day that made sense to me:
and I paraphrase as i don't remember the exact words
If we could understand God with our human minds, He would not be worthy of our respect/worship/prayers.
So I go on believing but not understanding. Faith?