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Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:35 am
by Gob
Some US conservatives, including President Donald Trump, warn that secular elites, pursuing an agenda of political correctness, have played down religion as part of a so-called war on Christmas.
In Britain, some are now warning of a war on Easter.
The "storm in an egg cup," as the network ITV put it, began after the confectionary giant Cadbury decided to omit the word "Easter" from the title of an annual egg hunt it sponsors, calling the event "Cadbury's Great British Egg Hunt."
The event, which has been around for a decade and has been known as the Easter Egg Trail, is co-sponsored with the National Trust, a conservation charity. It sends hundreds of thousands of children hunting for Easter eggs on historic properties across the country on Easter weekend.
The decision was considered such an affront to traditionalists that none less than the Archbishop of York and Prime Minister Theresa May intervened to express dismay.
The archbishop, John Sentamu, lamented that omitting an explicit Easter reference was akin to "spitting on the grave" of John Cadbury, a Quaker who founded the company, which initially sold cocoa and drinking chocolate, in Birmingham in 1824.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:22 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
I never got the link between the Easter Bunny and the ressurection of Jesus.
But that's just me.
We celebrated both the bunny and the rising.
Find the Easter baskets and eggs, then off to church.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:28 pm
by Burning Petard
The link is historical, not theological. The holiday is called Easter, not Resurrection. It comes from ancient Christian tactics of pre-empting pagan celebrations, giving them a veneer of Christianity. The rabbits and the eggs are survivors of ancient spring fertility rituals.
snailgate
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:21 pm
by Sue U
The archbishop, John Sentamu, lamented that omitting an explicit Easter reference was akin to "spitting on the grave" of John Cadbury, a Quaker who founded the company,
The archbishop can STFU about Quaker traditions, since as a rule Quakers do not "celebrate" Easter -- or Christmas, or any other "holy day," for that matter. The Quakers and Puritans were the OG War On Christmas and other Anglican-Catholic feast days.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:26 pm
by Crackpot
Actually Easter has always been the holy day of holy days in all Christian traditions. (It is after all what makes Christians "Christian") It has always been "celebrated" though methods and dates have differed.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:07 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Burning Petard wrote:The link is historical, not theological. The holiday is called Easter, not Resurrection. It comes from ancient Christian tactics of pre-empting pagan celebrations, giving them a veneer of Christianity. The rabbits and the eggs are survivors of ancient spring fertility rituals.
snailgate
Evidence, frat boy? The eggs originated in Christian communities in the near east and the rabbits in the USA. Very modern, the bunnies, and rubbish of course. The timing of "Easter" followed the Passover and is still called Pascha in many places. One of those councils decided not to follow the Jewish calendar for Passover exactly and instead we have this rather odd movable feast. So blame Easter on the Jews please; it was their (his) festival that Jesus was attending when arrested.
You are certainly correct that many Christian dates were cleverly aligned with local practices. Good marketing that. Let the plebes keep their symbols but assign a "real" meaning to them
And if you're banging on about oestre then there's only the Bede for that and no one yet has come up with any evidence of such a Germanic goddess, though heaven knows they've tried. Anyway, it's nice that so many cultures recognise the coming of spring - you Eurocentric northern hemispherian you!
One would think that the Arch (head of a church that's busy rewriting the Bible whenever it pleases) and the PM would be better advised to just shrug and move on. Who cares what Cadbury calls their Egg Hunt Fun for Kids?
(PS Cadbury, Fry and Rowntree were not interested in the Anglican-Catholic complexities; they were too busy providing chocolate in neat tins to participants in the Anglo-Boer War - well, the right ones, anyway. Happy New Year from Vickie! But if anyone wants to look into what those three did for progressive policies, there's a heck of a lot to read about! Kudos, Cadbury - great choccies and good hearts)
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:15 pm
by Burning Petard
Ah Crackpot, you warm my heart. It has been a long time since I heard any one announce that Quakers (officially Society of Friends, based on Jesus' words at John 15:14ff) are not part of the Christian tradition.
And Meade, you also. In my many years as a college student I was always a member of Gamma Delta Iota. For information about the Easter rabbit, I refer you to the Brothers Gimm, one time law students at Marburg University, who knew more about European tribal folk lore than I ever could.
snailgate
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:48 pm
by Sue U
MajGenl.Meade wrote:The eggs originated in Christian communities in the near east
Use of eggs in the celebration festivals of spring long pre-dates Christian communities; they are part of the Jewish Passover celebration (now as a symbol of the holiday sacrifice made in the days of the Temple), their use probably dating back to the Babylonian captivity (586-539 BCE) if not earlier, as Nowruz celebrations popularized under Cyrus the Great (same period) also feature eggs. It is unsurprising that Christians in the post-Second Temple period retained many of the customs of their Jewish forebears. Plus, who doesn't like to play games with eggs?
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:56 pm
by Scooter
I can remember reading a story in Highlights magazine when I was a child (though I can't be bothered to look it up now) about a Germanic pagan custom of rolling eggs over the fields in spring in order to bring about a good harvest.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:01 pm
by Big RR
I also recall hearing (when I was a kid) that the easter egg rolling contests were inspired by the stone being rolled away from Jesus' grave, and the hunts were inspired by those who went to the grave to find his body. It was not apposition of the church I attended (just one of the sunday school teachers who said it) and I never bought it--I always thought it had something to do with spring, nothing more.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:08 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Sue U wrote:MajGenl.Meade wrote:The eggs originated in Christian communities in the near east
Use of eggs in the celebration festivals of spring long pre-dates Christian communities; they are part of the Jewish Passover celebration (now as a symbol of the holiday sacrifice made in the days of the Temple), their use probably dating back to the Babylonian captivity (586-539 BCE) if not earlier, as Nowruz celebrations popularized under Cyrus the Great (same period) also feature eggs. It is unsurprising that Christians in the post-Second Temple period retained many of the customs of their Jewish forebears. Plus, who doesn't like to play games with eggs?
Thanks - v. interesting. My point to snail was that Christian eggie things did not begin as adapting a pagan habit to enforce a Christian belief. Quite happy that the early Jewish members of the Way continued their own Jewish tradition, even borrowed at second hand from some other mob.
And snail, that's an easter hare the Germans created; Santa Claws? The Americans made it into a "bunny".
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:22 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
that's an easter hare the Germans created
At least it's not a pagan Easter Ham.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:16 pm
by Bicycle Bill
oldr_n_wsr wrote:that's an easter hare the Germans created
At least it's not a pagan Easter Ham.
If a Jew (Jesus of Nazareth) can become a Christian, why couldn't an 'unclean' animal like a pig become kosher?
-"BB"-
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:07 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
why couldn't an 'unclean' animal like a pig become kosher?
Works for me.
Bacon is abrosia to me.
Ham (pagan or otherwise) not so much.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:11 am
by Scooter
Bicycle Bill wrote:If a Jew (Jesus of Nazareth) can become a Christian, why couldn't an 'unclean' animal like a pig become kosher?
David Ben Ariel was a poster at CyberSoapBox who was a follower of Herbert Armstrong, whose bizarre theology included British Israelism, a belief that the British people, and their descendants in the U.S. and elsewhere, were themselves descended from the so-called Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. His flavour of Christianity also preaches adherence to Mosaic laws (or at least portions of them). "Jesus hates your pagan Easter ham" was the title of one of David's diatribes on the subject, which became a running joke at the CSB and then here.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:46 pm
by Burning Petard
When I had a radio that was tube type and 110v, I used to put it next to my pillow and fall asleep listening to "The World of Tomorrow" with Herbert W. Armstrong' It was wonderfully presented--much more exciting than any sermons I heard at church with my family. But weird. I just could not find the stuff in my bible that he seemed to find in his bible. Now on my bookshelf with many versions of 'The Bible' I have the Wolverton Bible. It is excerpts from the Old Testament and Revelation, illustrated by Basil Wolverton. The artist is better known for his grotesque drawings for Mad magazine and before that for Life magazine. But Wolverton was a student at Armstrong's college and did this illustrated version for that school. Appropriate to Armstrong's theology, it has nothing from the New Testament except Revelation.
That theory of the Brits actually being the 'Lost Tribes'. has an interesting history, if you are into that sort of thing. I have always wondered how the biblical kingdom of Judea and and its progeny managed to appropriate the common English language words of anti-Semitic and Israel and make them exclusively Jewish.
snailgate
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:13 pm
by Guinevere
Scooter wrote:Bicycle Bill wrote:If a Jew (Jesus of Nazareth) can become a Christian, why couldn't an 'unclean' animal like a pig become kosher?
David Ben Ariel was a poster at CyberSoapBox who was a follower of Herbert Armstrong, whose bizarre theology included British Israelism, a belief that the British people, and their descendants in the U.S. and elsewhere, were themselves descended from the so-called Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. His flavour of Christianity also preaches adherence to Mosaic laws (or at least portions of them). "Jesus hates your pagan Easter ham" was the title of one of David's diatribes on the subject, which became a running joke at the CSB and then here.
Geeze, I was simply going to say it was an inside joke.
Well said, Scooter.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:59 pm
by Big RR
oldr_n_wsr wrote:why couldn't an 'unclean' animal like a pig become kosher?
Works for me.
Bacon is abrosia to me.
Ham (pagan or otherwise) not so much.
As I recall, the Weissman Institute in Israel was trying to genetically engineer a kosher pig by doing away with the cloven hooves (the prohibition, in part, is on eating animals with cloven hooves that don't chew their cud). I don't know if this was a joke urban legend or not, but it did sound serious to me.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:01 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Bacon will not be denied.
Re: Storm in an egg cup
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:05 pm
by Beer Sponge
You had me at Bacon!