Fryed balsphemy

[Gob]

Police in the Republic of Ireland have launched an investigation after a viewer claimed comments made by Stephen Fry on a TV show were blasphemous.



Officers are understood to be examining whether the British comedian committed a criminal offence under the Defamation Act when he appeared on RTE in 2015.
Fry had asked why he should "respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid god who creates a world.... full of injustice". He later said he was not "offensive towards any particular religion".

According to a report in the Irish Independent newspaper, no publicised cases of blasphemy have been brought before the courts since the law was introduced in 2009 and a source said it was "highly unlikely" that a prosecution against Fry would take place.

Appearing on The Meaning of Life, hosted by Gay Byrne, in February 2015, Fry had been asked what he might say to God at the gates of heaven.
Fry said: "How dare you create a world in which there is such misery? It's not our fault? It's not right. It's utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid god who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?" He went on to say that Greek gods "didn't present themselves as being all seeing, all wise, all beneficent", adding "the god who created this universe, if it was created by god, is quite clearly a maniac, an utter maniac, totally selfish".

The Irish Independent reported a member of the public made a complaint to police in Ennis in the same month the programme was broadcast. He was recently contacted by a detective to say they were looking into his complaint. The viewer was not said to be offended himself but believed Fry's comments qualified as blasphemy under the law, which carries a maximum penalty of a fine of 25,000 euros (£22,000). The law prohibits people from publishing or uttering "matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion".

The government said at the time it was needed because the republic's 1937 constitution only gives Christians legal protection of their beliefs.

Speaking to the BBC in 2015, Fry said he had been "absolutely astonished" by some of the reaction on social media to what he had said on the show. He said: "I don't think I mentioned once any particular religion and I certainly didn't intend, and in fact I know I didn't say anything offensive towards any particular religion."
A police spokeswoman told the BBC: "We are not commenting on an ongoing investigation."

[BoSoxGal]

The law is from 2009?! Sounds like something from 1809!

I think I saw that clip, or he's said that kind of thing before, because I recall seeing Fry trash 'god' in that way in an interview. It was quite definitely non-denominational.

If those comments are actionable, then it's essentially illegal to be an atheist and express oneself about the concept of god in Ireland. How very backward!

[Lord Jim]

The law prohibits people from publishing or uttering "matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion".

This is another European hate speech law...(just like other laws that seek to make racist speech illegal, or make it illegal to deny The Holocaust)

Since the countries that have these laws have no guarantee of freedom of speech in their basic law (as we do) they are able to have these types of laws...

These laws are not a throw back to some earlier time; they are an effort to appease the modern day PC authoritarians...

In fact this particular law was probably intended primarily to criminalize criticism of the Muslim religion (since the earlier law only banned hate speech against Christianity) presumably the 2009 law also bans hate speech against Wiccans and Odinists as well...

I'm sure the folks who wrote the law thought themselves quite "progressive" and "inclusive", extending the same "right" to not have anyone say something that offends them to all religions that had previously only applied to Christians...

It's kind of a hoisted on their own petard thing since the authoritarian PCers certainly never intended that the law would be used to criminalize Atheist speech...(one form of hate speech which of course, they heartily approve)

What Fry said was "grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred" by several religions, and the wording of the law is kind of unclear as to whether that would qualify as a violation, or if it only criminalizes speech against one particular religion...( The first part of the law refers to "any" religion; the last part of it refers to "that" religion.)

a source said it was "highly unlikely" that a prosecution against Fry would take place.

That's not surprising, since the people who wrote this law undoubtedly were looking to nab Christians who criticized the Muslim religion, not Atheists who trashed the beliefs of monotheistic religions in general...(which, as I mentioned, is a view point most of them agree with)

Personally I have zero interest in Stephen Fry's views on religion, (when I consider who to look to for insights on religious faith, "professional comedians" doesn't get a really high place on my list) but I also have zero support for "hate speech" laws period, no matter whose ox they gore...

[RayThom]

After watching Fry's now two and a half year old response and the follow up commentary there's nothing I can argue with. I accept it all as an absolute truth I believe in.

I unabashedly accept that "Agnostic Atheist" category mentioned yet I, too, don't open advertise it. What I do know is if I dare say something like "God is dead' or "God does not exist" among God fearing friends and/or acquaintances then it quickly becomes God help me.

According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world. The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system", but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect.

Almost every last one of these 4,200 systems espouse a formulated and authoritative creed that states most emphatically that if I don't belong to it specifically I will not, and cannot, be saved in the afterlife. What?

Fuck that shit. Simple math shows that almost everyone who has lived, is living, or will be living, their soul is going to the exact same place I'm going except for that one God approved denomination... whatever that is.

Unroll a sheet of white paper as large as the United States and puncture it anywhere with one pinhole. Now quickly fly away to one of the thousands of galaxies, one that's billion of light-years away. OK, "your mission Dan, should you choose to accept it" is to show anyone with you precisely where the pinhole is located. WTF?

This supposed boundless, endless, infinite, realm -- if you believe what your are indoctrinated into believing -- is the work of one creator, or God, and believed by any one of these people belonging to one of the 4,200 different religions mentioned. Well, excuse me, if I choose not to believe a word of it. How can I possibly be marginalized and lesser for it, and condemned to eternal damnation? How dare they!

In the end, I will be better off never having believed in the power of a so-called-God rather than to have been held captive to or by absolute unprovable myths with absolute unprovable foundations. Life is too short.

And may God have mercy on ALL our souls, Ray say facetiously.

[BoSoxGal]

[Econoline]

I'm reminded of a comment once made by Isaac Asimov (or at least attributed to him; I can't quote it exactly because I've never been able to find it again). He said something like this:

• I believe that if I'm wrong and it turns out that God DOES exist, he's probably big enough to forgive an honest difference of opinion.

[Joe Guy]

Based on the title of this thread I thought it was about frying food and using balsphemic vinegar dressing...

[datsunaholic]

Taking Ray's 4200 number, there are a fair number of them that don't include the "One True Religion" as one of their core beliefs, and in fact accept other religions as valid.

On the other hand, many do. They don't even take into account the fact that some people are never exposed to their "one true" religion. Which to me is a logical fallacy.

I get that religion, particularly organized ones, can help people. Many people need the structure that comes with a core belief system. The problem is, religions were created by people and every person is flawed. Every person has their own belief. The only true religion is the one you hold within. Which changes as you live. It's not static, as much as the "church" leaders try to make it. Because every church leader changes things a little bit. They're people, and they have opinions and make choices just like anyone else. Many don't even follow what they preach. I've seen so many preachers who would never "qualify for heaven" under their own teachings based on their own lifestyle. And it's why I'm more an Atheist than a God-believer. I believe in Scientifically proven fact, or theory with good science behind it. That's about the only "faith" I have, because having "faith" in the unproven has failed me many times. Whereas things with good science behind them rarely have, if I actually followed them. It's when I thought I knew better, that has gotten me in trouble.

[Big RR]

No one expects the Irish Inquisition.

[BoSoxGal]

[Big RR]

I'm sure the folks who wrote the law thought themselves quite "progressive" and "inclusive", extending the same "right" to not have anyone say something that offends them to all religions that had previously only applied to Christians...

Well, you know what they say about good intentions and the road to hell. That's precisely why laws like this are problematic, and why it shouldn't have been in place for any religion. The easiest way to regulate thought is to prohibit free and open discussion of ideas, perhaps even banning some words. Orwell showed us that nearly 70 years ago, but people never learn.

[BoSoxGal]

Meanwhile the legislatures of 20 states in the USA have introduced laws significantly restricting free assembly/free speech in the wake of post-election protests.

[Big RR]

I haven't seen any of those proposals, but it's not surprising in the least.

[Lord Jim]

Is there a link for that?

[BoSoxGal]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... test-bills

[BoSoxGal]

Irish police have halted an investigation of Stephen Fry for blasphemy because the Garda Síochána could not find enough people to be outraged over the actor’s anti-God remarks on Irish TV.

Only one viewer made a formal complaint against Fry over comments he made on a programme with Irish broadcasting legend Gay Byrne back in 2015.

One individual complaint alone cannot result in a prosecution under the legislation.

Fry told Byrne he could never respect “a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world … full of injustice”.

The sole man who complained to the Garda under the terms of the 2009 blasphemy law previously told the Irish Independent: “I did my civic duty in reporting it. The guards did their duty in investigating it. I am satisfied with the result.”

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... -blasphemy

[MajGenl.Meade]

Fry told Byrne he could never respect “a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world … full of injustice”.

However, it's perfectly OK with him if capricious, mean-minded, stupid people create a world full of injustice. Er, which is exactly what Christianity avers has happened but he doesn't seem to know that.

One must admire Steve-o even when he's being clueless.

I am glad they withdrew this extremely stupid charge - it has no place in any debate or in any rational society. But then.... Ireland....

[rubato]

"... Orwell showed us that nearly 70 years ago, but people never learn. "

You did.


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

"... it has no place in any debate or in any rational society. But then.... Ireland.... "

Up to the time of Franco's death Ireland and Spain were the two most backwards, most religious, and most Christian countries in Europe.

Causation.


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

I thought John Cleese was the blasphemer?*


yrs,
rubato

* The actor playing the person to be stoned in tLOB was not credited.