Plan B Forum

My (4 year old) son has just come back from school telling me he knows how the world was formed - god created it.

I am uncomfortable with this sort of indoctrination, but shall not say anything to him yet - he is only 4. Of course, it is precisely because small children are indoctrinated that helps the survival of the church. But I am curious ...

To the atheists out there - what is your opinion of this?
To the faithful out there - if your small child had returned home saying they had been taught there is no god and the world was formed as the result of cooling of rock from the sun over billions of years, how would you feel?

This isn't a rant against religion, per se - I am just wondering what feelings are about the early indoctrination of youngsters.

To us 'merkins it's kind of odd since religion isn't part of curriculum till at least secondary school when it's available in a comparative religions class. (unless you're specifically paying for it)

Yes, I'm surprised that they are teaching this to 4yo. Usually the only things they are learning is socialization skills and reading/spelling/counting. Religion should be left to the parents at that age.

ETA
Unless it's a religious run organization that the child is going to.

Or a teacher with religion answering a question from a kid, in a way they believe to be honest?

Whatever the reason, I'd be asking the school how and why this came about, and expecting information and assurances it would not happen again.

Gob wrote:Or a teacher with religion answering a question from a kid, in a way they believe to be honest?

Whatever the reason, I'd be asking the school how and why this came about, and expecting information and assurances it would not happen again.

I agree.
thestoat what were the circumstances (type of school, class subject, etc) if you don't mind telling us?

Sorry - I should have said. It is a C of E school (Church of England), so on one hand I am really not that surprised (choice is limited in our neck of the woods, and it is a well regarded school). On the other hand - he is only 4. I've not really come across this sort of thing before so am not sure what to expect. It just got me thinking about how you react in general when your child is taught something you don't believe to be true (i.e. taught about god when you don't believe in one or taught about the absence of a god if you believe)

I don't really know how to respond really. It is something you should have thought about going in.

I tell my grandkids that they have to pass whatever tests their instructors give them.

1st and foremost.

However I am not ashamed to teach them religion at home where I believe it actually should be done.

Science teachers have a hard enough time trying to teach things they think they know...

I find it amazing that any teacher, or anyone with degree level education, can believe such codswallop.

Nevertheless, some do. I'm guessing that C of E schools in the UK work the same as Catholic ones... If you don't show that you are a true believer and regular church goer they won't hire you.

Gob wrote:I find it amazing that any teacher, or anyone with degree level education, can believe such codswallop.

And I find it hard to believe an educated person doesn't...

We're quits then

Gob wrote:We're quits then

Concur

The indoctrination of youngsters? A once told told tale isn't indoctrination, that takes years and multiple switches. Perhaps your youngster was being indulged, they believe in Power Rangers and Luke Skywalker too.

If it were my 4 year old and it was not a religion based school I would be asking questions.


We have yet to discover how schools over here "work". As Pudd will be going to a school which is not religion based had he come home spouting that crap i would be down there like a shot asking why he was taking fairy tales as a class!

Crackpot wrote:I don't really know how to respond really. It is something you should have thought about going in

Not quite so simple. All the decent schools in this area are faith based and I am not sure it makes a difference anyway.

loCAtek wrote:The indoctrination of youngsters? A once told told tale isn't indoctrination, that takes years and multiple switches. Perhaps your youngster was being indulged, they believe in Power Rangers and Luke Skywalker too.

But that is what happens. The schools I went to (many years ago) weren't C of E or faith based, yet I still suffered many years of compulsory RE (religious education) - so the indoctrination is there. Maybe these days this is confined to C of E, etc schools. Yes, children believe in other fairy stories - just that these they grow out of

SisterMaryFellatio wrote:As Pudd will be going to a school which is not religion based had he come home spouting that crap i would be down there like a shot asking why he was taking fairy tales as a class!

Absolutely.

The thing is, I am wondering whether being faith based has any bearing on it. As I say, I had it all through my school years, none of which were faith based. Has this changed I wonder? The UK is so PC these days that it might have. My daughter goes to a different school where she had the option of Christianity or moral (an understanding of all of them - I wonder if this includes atheism?): but that school is European and thus very different from the UK system.

Ultimately, I don't think it matters (for me). I plan to ensure my children get a balanced view and can then make their own minds up. Can I counter balance years of religious indoctrination? Dunno ... but I shall try. I believe wholeheartedly in what Richard Dawkins has always said:

Believe in a god. Or don't. It doesn't matter. The important thing is that you THINK about it before deciding.

For me, "thinking about it" involves so much more than blindly accepting what teachers tell you (looking back, I've been told some real shit by teachers - often plainly wrong scientific "facts")

My six year old niece, came out with some claptrap about "god is the light of the world" when she was at our house the other week. Like Stoat's area probably the only decent primary school close to her house is a C of E school.

I vowed to buy her "death metal anthems" for her next birthday!

thestoat wrote:For me, "thinking about it" involves so much more than blindly accepting what teachers tell you (looking back, I've been told some real shit by teachers - often plainly wrong scientific "facts")

Four years olds may think, but they don't have the "knowledge" (and perhaps the ability at that age) to analyze different views on a subject. At that age it's parroting and rote memory. Develop the logical thinking and questioning everything in the child and they'll be fine.

oldr - I think that is pretty spot on

Logic and rational thought compel the conclusion that the earth and the universe were created by an intelligent being (or beings) - which is why that has been the predominant belief since the beginning of recorded history.

The theory that the universe (and terrestrial life) simply came into existence as a result of random natural events and causes extrapolated over a virtually infinite period of time is, logically speaking, utterly ridiculous.

Though possibly true.

A 4-year-old?

God, definitely.