Plan B Forum

A guy I worked with got fired today because he refused to sign off on the company's ethics policy. He was given additional chances to address any issues and or questions he might have had he just refused to sign.

Boggles the mind

What did he object to in it?

I have no fucking clue. It was stuff that if you had half a moral compass you'd have no problem with. The only thing i can think of is he may hav been one of those types that thinks signing anything like that is somehow an infringement on his personal freedoms.

Ah, one of those nutbags then....

I really have no clue. That's just the only reason I can think for not signing it. Except that he was completely unethical yet somehow took issue with signing something he had no intention of following.

Well, you have to admire his resolve.

Be true to yourself... you're the only one you got.

Maybe he wanted to be fired so he could collect unemployment for a while.

Possible not likely. The difference in funds is massive and this was dragging on for months. There seems to be easier and less damaging ways to get fired. Not many companies in this business would not let you go without signing an ethics disclosure.

Maybe he wanted to try have some sort of court case...

Against a company that will cease to be in 6 months? Could be but it wouldn't be too bright.

ex-khobar Andy wrote:Maybe he wanted to be fired so he could collect unemployment for a while.

Not sure you know how unemployment works? For cause firing related to intentional misconduct makes one ineligible for UI. I would think that failure to adhere to an ethics guidelines as part of the employment contract as basis for firing wouldn’t make him eligible for benefits.

Failure to adhere to the policy would constitute misconduct, but failing to sign it isn't. Generally that's something that would prevent one from getting hired in the first place, but this was a new policy from what it sounds like.

He probably thought it said "Ethnics Policy" and didn't want any part of it.

Datsun it doesn't work that way when acting unethically can cost lives.

I'm not sure what you mean, CP.

What I meant was that failure to sign an ethics policy in itself doesn't constitute misconduct. I didn't mean that signing wasn't required for further employment.

The employer has the right to set policy and employees must follow any policy that isn’t unlawful - refusal to sign the lawful ethics policy is de facto quitting, and quitting doesn’t qualify for UI.

BoSoxGal wrote:

ex-khobar Andy wrote:Maybe he wanted to be fired so he could collect unemployment for a while.

Not sure you know how unemployment works? For cause firing related to intentional misconduct makes one ineligible for UI. I would think that failure to adhere to an ethics guidelines as part of the employment contract as basis for firing wouldn’t make him eligible for benefits.

I said this slightly tongue in cheek; but it's up to the employer to decide whether to fight unemployment benefits and they might well decide not to fight it if the reason was unwillingness to sign an ethics policy. And having written ethics policies, taught ethics courses, fired people and been unemployed I have a pretty good idea how the system works. If for example the company failed to disclose during an interview that it was required, a company might make the decision that rather than facing a lawsuit, they will not fight unemployment. I have no idea of the actual situation of this individual or CP's company. The company could (I do not say that they did) make a decision that the slightly elevated tax rate they will pay is worth the reduced hassle by OKing the benefits. I can see situations where refusing to sign an ethics agreement would not equal 'for cause' which is generally held to be something normally considered to be wrong such as stealing from the employer, a fellow employee, fabricating data etc. But of course I am not saying that such a refusal is smart. And even for a genuine 'for cause' you as employer should have all your ducks lined up: written warnings etc.

Joe Guy wrote:He probably thought it said "Ethnics Policy" and didn't want any part of it.

or he thought they were referring to this;

BoSoxGal wrote:

ex-khobar Andy wrote:Maybe he wanted to be fired so he could collect unemployment for a while.

Not sure you know how unemployment works? For cause firing related to intentional misconduct makes one ineligible for UI. I would think that failure to adhere to an ethics guidelines as part of the employment contract as basis for firing wouldn’t make him eligible for benefits.

Not always. Plenty of UI people basically rubber atamp their cases. (I worked with someone who collected after being fired for cause.)

Some do but many don’t - it’s a cost to the employer and many challenge unjustified claims, I know, I’ve defended a few for a municipality and advocated several times for workers when I was with legal aid.