Our local area was graced recently by a presentation at Duquesne University of the Holy Ghost ("DooKane") on the subject of "Social Justice." I believe the main speaker was the liberal pundit, E.J. Dionne.
Much of the evening was spent with Dionne lauding the RC Church in America for its leadership in the area of "Social Justice." In addition to the usual stuff - the Church promotes public spending for those initiatives which generally comport to its "Corporal Works of Mercy" - the Church was lauded for its "leadership" in the area of immigration policy.
While there can be no doubt that the Messiah encouraged His followers to donate to the poor, feed the hungry, visit the imprisoned, give shelter to the homeless, and so forth, I'm not sure it follows, logically, that His followers should engage in political activity and initiatives that compel the general citizenry, Christian or not, and generally against their will, to pay for "charitable" works and donations by an impersonal, inefficient, and corrupt Government. (More than half of the money supposedly dedicated to help The Poor ends up in the pockets of bureaucrats, self-aggrandizing foundations, and contractors or one sort or another).
Indeed, I suspect that many people who promote such Government activities do so in order to make themselves feel like they, personally, are committing charitable acts through their efforts to confiscate Other Peoples' Money and have it distributed to those whom They would consider worthy objects of charity. Politicians crassly promote the falsehood that in promulgating such laws and regulations, they are being "charitable." Dare I say, this is both hypocritical and perverse? (And dare I point out that study after study indicates that "liberals" give much less to charity than do conservatives?)
As Christ himself recognized, there is no "social justice" ("you will always have the poor with you"), and we Christians need to focus on the non-temporal aspects of our eternal life rather than accumulating trivialities such as food, shelter, and clothing.
The role of the Church (and of so-called "Chistians" generally) in promoting immigration lawlessness is even more tenuous and bizarre. What policy is it, exactly, that they would propose? That any godforsaken unfortunate from anywhere in the world who could benefit from being under the protection of the American "safety net" is welcome to come and do so? Or is it only those from Mexico and Central America? Do they suggest that we annex these shit-hole countries and give them all free food, shelter, health care, and non-English "education," like we do in California? Or is it only the ones who break into the U.S.? Inquiring minds want to know.
Do the Catholic/Christian do-gooders who espouse "Social Justice" care at all about the United States Constitution, which prohibits the Federal Government from acting as a charitable organization?
Oh, yeah. I forgot. The Constitution is a "living document," and says whatever I think it ought to say, regardless of the printed words.
Many countries have tried to establish governments founded on the principles of "Social Justice," and they have mainly ended in grotesque corruption and financial ruin. The "best" of them - basically the countries of Western Europe - have been able to hang on and provide cradle-to-grave security until now, but the paradigm is in a death spiral for a number of reasons, chiefly, that when you pay people to do nothing, perversely enough, they will elect to do nothing.
The very expression, "Social Justice," makes me nauseous, and causes me to involuntarily reach for my wallet.
Save us from "Social Justice"
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
Why should they? It's only a piece of paper, it can be amended.dgs49 wrote:
Do the Catholic/Christian do-gooders who espouse "Social Justice" care at all about the United States Constitution, which prohibits the Federal Government from acting as a charitable organization?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
Hence the parable of the man who just buried the money his master gave him to invest; he was right not to be concerned with the "trivialities" of life. Or the parable of the rich man condemned because he ignored the cries of the crippled Lazarus. Or jesus' recognition, as a good jew, that one must be charitable to those less fortunate. Just to name a few.Christians need to focus on the non-temporal aspects of our eternal life rather than accumulating trivialities such as food, shelter, and clothing.
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
Completly misquoted that first parable RR
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
Crackpot--from Matthew chapter 8:
14 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man traveling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strewed:
25 and I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strewed:
27 thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. Mt. 13.12 · Mk. 4.25 · Lk. 8.18
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Point out where I misquoted it. You may disagree with my conclusion drawn (and that is something we could discuss), but nothing was misquoted.
14 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man traveling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strewed:
25 and I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strewed:
27 thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. Mt. 13.12 · Mk. 4.25 · Lk. 8.18
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Point out where I misquoted it. You may disagree with my conclusion drawn (and that is something we could discuss), but nothing was misquoted.
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
I absolutely agree with the Christian obligation to be charitable. I just disagree that "being charitable" equates to stealing OPM and distributing it.
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
what you quoted speaks for itself
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
CP--OK, I agree.
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
the christian church existed for 1800 years and poverty and misery hardly changed at all.dgs49 wrote:I absolutely agree with the Christian obligation to be charitable. I just disagree that "being charitable" equates to stealing OPM and distributing it.
The Liberal secular society has existed for less than 150 years and poverty has been reduced to its lowest level in human history.
It is obvious that christians like to make people suffer and are angry when you take that away from them.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
Rubato - you are wrong there. The Catholic Church is tremendously giving. It may be fabulously wealthy, but it gives most of its wealth to the poor every year. Hmmm. No, sorry, you are right. As you were ...
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
thestoat wrote:Rubato - you are wrong there. The Catholic Church is tremendously giving. It may be fabulously wealthy, but it gives most of its wealth to the poor every year. Hmmm. No, sorry, you are right. As you were ...
The Catholic church just scratches until the itch goes away, they never actually change the level of misery. The only effect of their efforts in Mexico has been to increase poverty and foster a culture which is notable for its lack of interest in education.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
I think rube's record on both the RC church and liberalism's "benefits" speaks for itself, and does not require response.
The amazing thing so far is that he has refrained from wailing about the pedophilia scandal on this thread. He must be having an off day.
The amazing thing so far is that he has refrained from wailing about the pedophilia scandal on this thread. He must be having an off day.
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
Very much of Mexico is poor, Caritas Mexico <Mexico Charity helps up to 500,000; they are one of the Latin American branchs of
Caritas Internationalis
From the Heart
We are committed to combating dehumanising poverty, which robs people of their dignity and humanity. Caritas has many faces but one heart. Caritas provides assistance to the most vulnerable regardless of race or religion, on behalf of Catholics aorund the world.
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
The fact remains that the RC Church has never had any significant effect on poverty other than to increase it by treating women like breeding stock.dgs49 wrote:I think rube's record on both the RC church and liberalism's "benefits" speaks for itself, and does not require response.
The amazing thing so far is that he has refrained from wailing about the pedophilia scandal on this thread. He must be having an off day.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
As usual, talking out of your ass.
There are, as we speak, millions upon millions of poor, hungry, homeless, addicted, and sick people who are benefitting from Catholic "social services," both in the U.S. and around the world. It has been such for a long, long time.
Has the Church been able to eradicate the vestiges of kleptocratic governments, crime, disease, ignorance, famine, natural catastrophe, individuals making catastrophic personal decisions?
No.
So I suppose it is probably best to sneer at the efforts and imply that the impact is insignificant.
You asshole.
There are, as we speak, millions upon millions of poor, hungry, homeless, addicted, and sick people who are benefitting from Catholic "social services," both in the U.S. and around the world. It has been such for a long, long time.
Has the Church been able to eradicate the vestiges of kleptocratic governments, crime, disease, ignorance, famine, natural catastrophe, individuals making catastrophic personal decisions?
No.
So I suppose it is probably best to sneer at the efforts and imply that the impact is insignificant.
You asshole.
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
"Save us from 'Social Justice'" - you mean, like the kind the Egyptian people just staged a revolution in the hopes of achieving?
If you want peace, work for justice!
If you want peace, work for justice!
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
The fact is that the Catholic Church never decreased poverty anywhere. Giving a few crusts to people they have made poor by preventing them from having birth control or brainwashing them out of using it is not charity. It is torture.dgs49 wrote:As usual, talking out of your ass.
There are, as we speak, millions upon millions of poor, hungry, homeless, addicted, and sick people who are benefitting from Catholic "social services," both in the U.S. and around the world. It has been such for a long, long time.
Has the Church been able to eradicate the vestiges of kleptocratic governments, crime, disease, ignorance, famine, natural catastrophe, individuals making catastrophic personal decisions?
No.
So I suppose it is probably best to sneer at the efforts and imply that the impact is insignificant.
You asshole.
Social Justice did reduce poverty. Medicare, Social Security, the minimum wage, the right to organize and strike, free public education, and birth control have all done so. In other words the liberal modern state has done in 200 years what the C. Church failed to do in 2,000 years. But the C. Church has never tried to reduce suffering. They have only increased it.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Save us from "Social Justice"
Rubato, my grandfather was the finest Catholic I've ever known; he knew all the blessings and tolerated all the skeptics (including me), he never demanded, only reasonably asked to give faith a chance.
He was, in his life, also the poorest of the poor. During his adolescence, he was a homeless orphan living on the street ...when his only recourse was to pray. This was before welfare, or social services, or any other secular support; he was yet another inconsequential beggar than would have done society a service by passing away silently. All he had was the church.
However, his prayers were answered. And he sired a family both great and humble; thX to God, not man.
He was, in his life, also the poorest of the poor. During his adolescence, he was a homeless orphan living on the street ...when his only recourse was to pray. This was before welfare, or social services, or any other secular support; he was yet another inconsequential beggar than would have done society a service by passing away silently. All he had was the church.
However, his prayers were answered. And he sired a family both great and humble; thX to God, not man.