Biden denied communion

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ex-khobar Andy
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Biden denied communion

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

I see that Robert Morey, the pastor at Saint Anthony Catholic Church in Florence SC, denied communion to Biden on Sunday on the grounds that "any public figure who advocates for abortion places himself or herself outside of Church teaching." Bear in mind that Biden has said that he personally is against abortion but that he will not refuse it to others. (That's called having it both ways. There's probably a good anal sex joke here but far be it from me . . . )

I'm not sure what goes on in the minds of some of these 'pastors.' Trump generally gets a pass for his going against church teachings - i'm pretty sure that the Catholic Church is against pussy-grabbing but I have to admit that I haven't checked the latest encyclicals. 'We're all sinners' is the line and so while he is clearly reprehensible - clutches pearls to chest - we have to keep him in our t&p and acknowledge his faith. He's our boy.

Do I have this right? I'm so confused.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Biden denied communion

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They’d have given him communion no questions asked if he raped born children as a pastime.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Big RR
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by Big RR »

If I'm not mistaken, Trump is protestant, not a Roman Catholic.

As for what the priest did,I think it may well be a breach of canon law. As I recall, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote a memo for the Vatican saying a priest should tell a politician who promotes abortion (or something like that) that he should not come for communion, and only after that warning can he refuse to to give the communion, to avoid it being a political demonstration as oppos ed to a ministerial act. It looks like this priest wanted to run the mass into a political spectacle rather than having the religious significance t is supposed to have.

As far as I know, I do not think protestant ministers have that same power to refuse communion (perhaps in the hope that coming to communion and participating in it might encourage moral behavior going forward and the fact that most, if not all, protestant ministers do not have that power to act on their own and refuse a sacrament), but there may be some denominations that permit this.

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Sue U
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by Sue U »

Christians, oy gevalt.
GAH!

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RayThom
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Biden denied communion

Post by RayThom »

Sue U wrote:Christians, oy gevalt.
You got that right.
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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

Big RR
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by Big RR »

Sue, can't jewish adherents be excluded from synagogues and participating in services by the rabbi and/or the congregation? I do recall reading a few accounts of lawsuits based on such exclusion (usually based on the ADA), which makes me think there is something similar. Indeed, I would think the clergy/congregations of most, if not all, religions have some right to exclude people. I think it goes part and parcel with being a religion.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Sue U wrote:ChristiansThe Whore of Babylon, oy gevalt.
You got that wrong :lol:
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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RayThom
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by RayThom »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Sue U wrote:Christians The Whore of Babylon, oy gevalt.
You got that wrong :lol:
You got that right.

Catholics aren't any better than fundamentalist christians.
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Big RR
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by Big RR »

Every time I've been in Babylon, I haven't been able to find her. Long Island is not that big; you'd think you could find someone that famous.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

:lol: :lol: Ray BigRR :lol: :lol:
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Sue U
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by Sue U »

Big RR wrote:Sue, can't jewish adherents be excluded from synagogues and participating in services by the rabbi and/or the congregation? I do recall reading a few accounts of lawsuits based on such exclusion (usually based on the ADA), which makes me think there is something similar. Indeed, I would think the clergy/congregations of most, if not all, religions have some right to exclude people. I think it goes part and parcel with being a religion.
Well, we don't have "sacraments" as such and we don't have the kind of hierarchical organization that the Roman Catholic church does, but I have never heard of anyone being excluded from a Jewish synagogue's communal worship--whether by the rabbi or the congregants--because of their personal beliefs or politics. Doing so would actually be contrary to the most widely accepted tenets of halakha (Jewish law). Depending on the branch of Judaism, the local minhag (community custom/tradition/practice) and the individual congregation, there may be some roles and rituals that are gender-specific or which non-Jews may not be permitted to perform. But no one can be refused because they don't conform to someone else's view of piety.

ETA:

In my congregation, the guy who for a number of years was educational director for the religious school (and who still occasionally leads various adult study programs) made it well known that he is an atheist. Yet there he was last month sitting in the front row at Rosh HaShana and Yom Kippur services; his daughter had her bat mitzvah and was married in the synagogue and is a soloist with the choir. Not sure what her views are on God and religion, but it's none of my--or anyone else's-- business.
GAH!

Big RR
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by Big RR »

That sounds pretty reasonable and I think it does make a lot of sense; but I do recall once reading (in the paper) about people who were shunned in an orthodox community in South Jersey for their "heretical" (it seems any dissent in this community was heretical) beliefs. The community was trying to force them to sell their home and move (not sure if there were any restrictive covenants on the deed). This was one of the ultra orthodox communities which had the string ringing it to mark the neighborhood). My guess is any time you give someone power, it is in danger of being abused, and when there is a religion behind it, that danger only increases. It's clearly contrary to the teachings of most religions, but it happens pretty frequently.

Adding to that, I do think there have to be ways of dealing with disruptive and dangerous persons; I was the church president (in the UCC, a fairly liberal denomination) and we had a guy who used to attend services who was mentally ill (he lived in the town and was the beneficiary of a trust fund from his dad--he also had a caretaker. He refused to take his meds, and used to sit in the service and occasionally just start shouting; it usually subsided pretty quickly, and the minister urged the congregation to just put up with it (as he said, he thought maybe he benefitted from being able to sit with other people once a week. Of course, his behavior escalated, he turned violent and hit someone; it was bad enough that we had to call the police, and he was eventually taken to a hospital for around a 45 day stay. I checked the church rules, and eventually the counsel agreed to refer to the congregation whether he should be barred from attending services unless he kept up his meds. The vote was far from unanimous, but many people were jsutifiable concerned for the safety of children and older people in the church and he was barred. I found it a very tough thing to do, but I think it was right (and we didn't have a problem with him afterwards as I think his caretaker understood and took it seriously.

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eddieq
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by eddieq »

I'm a "Protestant" (although, I am not protesting anything, just the generic term used for Christians of non-Roman Catholic practices I guess). American Baptist (not to be confused with those Southern Baptists).

At our core is the doctrine of "Priesthood of all believers" in that through our faith and belief in the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection, we are all sanctified and holy (holy meaning set aside for a purpose, not better than others) and we can go directly to God with our sins and confessions and need no intercessor other than the Holy Spirit. Sinners, saved by grace and all that. We profess that the practice of Communion is between the participant and God and use the biblical text that says, "One should examine himself before partaking in the body and blood" (paraphrase from multiple translations there). At my church, we practice "Open Communion" in that any believer may partake in the sharing of Communion. I've been to many congregations of different denominations (Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, etc.) and with the exception of the RC churches, I was always made to feel welcome to take part in a Communion service. Only once in my years have I been invited as a "non-Catholic" to participate in the Catholic Communion (Eucharist I think?) and that was on Easter Sunday in San Francisco. All of the other times I've been to a RC church, it was specifically pointed out to me that I was not welcome to participate. I also have had friends who were Catholic who were told they were not permitted to partake based on a specific circumstance. Point being, that it's not out of character for the RC church to deny this to Mr. Biden.

Anyway, Mr. Biden would have been welcome to participate at my church. Mr. Trump as well.

Big RR
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by Big RR »

The only time I have seen it is when I attended a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church (the most conservative of the Lutheran churches) and the minister said communion was limited to members of the Missouri Synod only; it was a long time ago (in the 80s I think) so it may not be their practice today.

I also have seen churches which refused baptism for the children of non member (including my own UCC church, which has driven a wedge between the minister and at least some of the congregation). I don't think any protestant churches require baptism to get into heaven the way Roman Catholics do (and even the RC church has backed off on this policy recently), but I can't support denying it to anyone.

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eddieq
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Re: Biden denied communion

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I cannot speak to other traditions. We practice immersion at the "age of reason". That's really a "case by case". I've seen kids as young as 10 make the decision. We don't baptize babies in our traditions, but we do hold a "dedication" service. Basically, a promise from the parents (and Godparents if applicable) that they would love, nourish, etc and raise the baby "in the church". No water. At an age of reason (I was just shy of my 13th birthday), we can request baptism. The pastor meets with baptismal candidates, offers council on what it means, the traditions of the Baptist church, etc, and schedules the event. Typically, it's a personal decision and not accepted/denied based on family status.

But again, that's the tradition I was raised in. It's not perfect, it's what we do. Everyone has their own traditions and religious practices (including no practice). To each their own. I am always happy to share my faith. A decision for/against a faith journey is between the individual and their god (or lack of a god).

Big RR
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by Big RR »

That makes sense eddieq; I guess it's similar to the way confirmation is treated in many other christian churches, where the person makes his or her own decision.

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Crackpot
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Re: Biden denied communion

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Communion is one of those things that the RC church gives priests major leeway on. My Grandma was denied communion for her entire life for the crime of marrying a non-catholic. (He was Eastern Orthodox) Even though she raised all of her kids catholic and attending church regularly.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Biden denied communion

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Crackpot wrote:Communion is one of those things that the RC church gives priests major leeway on. My Grandma was denied communion for her entire life for the crime of marrying a non-catholic. (He was Eastern Orthodox) Even though she raised all of her kids catholic and attending church regularly.
Despicable that a devout person of faith would be denied the essential sacrament of that faith her whole adult life by someone who probably looked the other way from pedophilia, if he wasn’t one himself.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

rubato
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by rubato »

If Biden had fucked a half dozen choir boys he would have been among the elect and singing in the choir of angels.


yrs,
rubato

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Biden denied communion

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

How unpleasant of you, rubato. Feeling better?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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