Let's Hear It For The Holy Ghost

All things philosophical, related to belief and / or religions of any and all sorts.
Personal philosophy welcomed.
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RayThom
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Let's Hear It For The Holy Ghost

Post by RayThom »

It obviously influenced this Florida juror.

I wonder if the OHG will soon be making it's rounds in the US senate.

God help us all.

Trial of former Florida Congresswoman Corrine Brown (a Democrat) leads to question over religion and the law.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/2020 ... ine-voices
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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

Burning Petard
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Re: Let's Hear It For The Holy Ghost

Post by Burning Petard »

The usual legal formulation is a jury of peers--no wisdom or intelligence implied. Once in that room by themselves with only the arcane instructions from the judge, they are allowed to do what they must to reach agreement. If that means rolling knuckle bones or killing a chicken so be it. This is Florida.

I do have some preference for the capital trial in early New York state (I believe this is the first trial in the USofA where a complete transcript exists) where the jury was locked in an unheated room in cold weather with no acmes to an outhouse and kept there until they reached a unanimous verdict.

snailgate

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Let's Hear It For The Holy Ghost

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

I hope that, if ever I am a witness in court, I have to integrity to tell them to omit the 'so help me god' bit. I might not if I want my voice to be heard in support of someone's character, for example: I don't want someone to not accept my opinion if they think that, just because I am not a Christian, I have no moral compass.

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Sue U
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Re: Let's Hear It For The Holy Ghost

Post by Sue U »

So you’d think the U.S. 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta would make short work of this appeal and issue a unanimous affirmation of the trial court’s decision to exclude the juror.

But the decision, rendered this past week, wasn’t unanimous, and it speaks to a changing federal judiciary.

In a vote of 2-1, the appeals court held that jurors are bound to consider the evidence and the law presented at trial. And nothing else.

***

But 64 pages in this 116-page ruling came from the fiery dissent of U.S. Circuit Judge William Pryor, who hailed the dismissed juror as the only one on that jury who obeyed the oath of rendering a true verdict “so help you God.”
I have said before that Pryor is way out of the judicial mainstream particularly when it comes to his far-right-wing views on social issues. He is going out of his way here to fluff the extremist Dominionists who tout religious beliefs as the basis for society. But our actual court rules and jury instructions make it plain that in rendering their verdict, jurors are to consider only the evidence presented at trial and the law as instructed by the trial judge; the voices in your head and/or your imaginary friend were not empaneled as jurors in the case and have no say in the verdict.
GAH!

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Let's Hear It For The Holy Ghost

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Over the objection of Brown’s lawyers, the judge removed the juror from the case, saying that a juror “injecting religious beliefs” into deliberations violated specific jury instructions that “this case be decided solely on the law as the court gave it to the jury and the evidence in the case.”

“It’s not that the person is praying for guidance so that the person can be enlightened, it’s that the higher being — or the Holy Spirit — is directing or telling the person what disposition of the charges should be made,” the judge said.
Holding no brief for the appeals court judge, Pryor, I am nevertheless intrigued by the statement made by the trial judge. It is unclear to me that there is any difference between "praying for guidance/enlightenment" (which the judge seems to think is OK) and "the higher being" actually giving guidance (which is not OK).

Still we can't allow this kind of thing. Had Juror #8 been guided by the Holy Spirit, we'd have been deprived of a terrific movie.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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RayThom
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Let's Hear It For The Holy Ghost

Post by RayThom »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:... Still we can't allow this kind of thing. Had Juror #8 been guided by the Holy Spirit, we'd have been deprived of a terrific movie.
There are plans to remake that classic called "Twelve Angry Women."

Juror #8 will be played by Jane Fonda.

Although the defendant get acquitted of murder, he finds himself at the center of accusations from the #MeToo movement.
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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

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