God vs. Darwin

[Scooter]

Baton Rouge area pastor defies governor, welcomes large gathering into church service

CENTRAL, La. (WAFB) - The Louisiana National Guard says it has not been tasked with breaking up large gatherings in the state, including at churches.

The statement comes on the heels of a pastor of a Louisiana church defying government orders by welcoming in hundreds of people into his church service Tuesday evening (March 17).

The gathering directly defied an order by Louisiana Governor John Bel Edwards that bans groups larger than 50 from gathering at any one time, including in churches. President Donald Trump has recommended no groups larger than 10.

The pastor, Rev. Tony Spell, says police showed up at the church after the service telling him the National Guard would break up any future gatherings that exceed 50 people.

However, Louisiana National Guard Colonel Ed Bush said Wednesday that is not accurate.

“The National Guard has not been tasked with enforcing any of the curfew, social distancing or meeting requirements as set by the governor,” Colonel Bush said. “Our focus right now is completely with helping state agencies with preparedness and medical readiness,” Bush added.

Numerous churches across the state have canceled services until further notice because of the governor’s proclamation, which he says aims to control the spread of the virus.

Tuesday’s service was held at Life Tabernacle Church in the City of Central, located in East Baton Rouge Parish. Rev. Spell says he does not believe his congregation is at risk of getting COVID-19.

“It’s not a concern,” Spell said of the virus. “The virus, we believe, is politically motivated. We hold our religious rights dear and we are going to assemble no matter what someone says.”

East Baton Rouge Parish District Attorney Hillar Moore says those violating the governor’s proclamation could face prosecution as a last resort. Reverend Spell is not concerned with that and boasted he had an even larger crowd this past weekend, days after the governor’s proclamation was issued.

“I had 1,170 in attendance Sunday,” Spell said. “We have 27 buses on Sundays picking up people in a five-parish area."

Spell says the more than 1,000 people who attended Sunday were in various parts of the church. However, he says a large portion of them were gathered in the main worship area of the church that day.

Gov. Edwards addressed the ban on large gatherings at bars, restaurants, churches, and other places during a news conference Saturday, March 14.

“I'm a person of faith,” the governor said. “I happen to believe very much in the awesome power of prayer. I also believe in science, and the scientists at the CDC say that the measures we are taking will minimize the spread."

U.S. Congressman Clay Higgins, a Republican from Louisiana, sent a letter to the governor last week saying he believes the limit on the size of church gatherings is unconstitutional.

“I agree that all our constituents and religious leaders should follow the recommendation of the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention (CDC),” Higgins wrote. “However, the decision to gather should be the choice of the individual or institution and not a mandate by any government entity. The state has no authority to enforce this proclamation nor any ban on worship.”

Moore, when asked about the Tuesday night service at Life Tabernacle, said all people and groups, including churches, should follow the rules. Moore says he does not believe churches are exempt from the proclamation just so long as the proclamation is narrowly tailored and not targeting any particular church.

“This is a very delicate issue and balance between emergency powers, the First Amendment, and religious rights and freedom,” Moore said. “We respect the people’s right to meet and practice their religion, but during these dangerous times, some temporary restrictions will prevail.”

Moore acknowledged those in violation of the proclamation could be prosecuted, but will first be asked by law enforcement to voluntarily comply.

“Hopefully, there will be some alternatives this church can use to ‘congregate’ and pray through other means that comply with the restrictions,” Moore said. “Summonses and prosecution will be the least favorable means to have well intended people comply.”

Former Louisiana state legislator, Woody Jenkins, attended the church service and live-streamed video of it to Facebook. Jenkins, who owns the Central City News newspaper, says he’s a not a member of the church, but supports the congregation’s right to assemble.

“Our attitude is the First Amendment rights rise and fall together: freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, and freedom of the press,” he said.

Jenkins says another church in Central, Milldale Baptist Church, has a large church service scheduled for Wednesday evening.

A reporter from WAFB was given permission to attend the service Tuesday evening, but remained in the church lobby, shooting video through a window.

The Central Police Department issued the following statement about the service:

"Monday, with the support of President Trump, health officials, and physicians, the governor issued an emergency order banning public or private gatherings with more than 50 people. This order was put in place to stop the spread of COVID-19.
Central Police Chief Roger Corcoran

The service started with several songs followed by a sermon about not living in fear.

“We want to encourage other religious leaders in churches like us, do not let the fear of persecution of any government official, any dictator law, prevent you from worshiping God, which our First Amendment states you are not allowed to do in any form,” said Spell. “Our church is a hospital where the sick can come and get healing. Cancers are healed here, people are healed of HIV in these services, and we believe that. Tonight, we’re also going to pass out anointed handkerchiefs to people who may have a fear, who may have a sickness, and we believe that when those anointed handkerchiefs go, that healing virtue is going to go on them as well."

The faithful members of the church say they’re not going anywhere.

“I love Pastor Spell for giving me the Word. I love him for the man he is. He changed me so much. I’m not missing my church because of no coronavirus. I love the Lord and He’s going to take care of us,” said Lillian Alexander, who attends the church often.

I leave it to the constitutional lawyers to assess whether government-ordered limitations on the size of church or other assemblies violate the 1st Amendment. But any church that believes that COVID-19 is "political", or that they have cured anyone of cancer or HIV, is a public health menace. I wouldn't care if those in attendance were a danger only to themselves, but unfortunately that isn't the way it will play out.

[Joe Guy]

Who is the pastor going to blame when the COVID-19 virus is spread among the congregation? The government? The Devil?

What an idiot.

[MajGenl.Meade]

The pastor is acting out of line with God's word and should be jailed

[Joe Guy]

He should be put out to pastor...

[Crackpot]

The pastor is acting out of line with God's word and should be jailed

Which God? I’m not sure what Mammon has to say on the subject.

[Gob]

Bleach in the shallow end again...

[MajGenl.Meade]

The pastor is acting out of line with God's word and should be jailed

Which God? I’m not sure what Mammon has to say on the subject.

Mammon's asking Trump for a bailout. I refer to the God that the pastor supposedly believes in. Hmmmmm, You could be right at that.......

[Big RR]

The pastor is acting out of line with God's word and should be jailed

Many people, pastors included, act "out of line with god's word"; I hardly think jail is a proper pusindment for that, lest we be jailed for having other gods before him,not keeping the sabbath holy, or adultery. God can defend his word on his own.

[Gob]

God can defend his word on his own.

Bet he cannot!

[Big RR]

Well, he can if he wants to; if he doesn't it's because he chooses not to defend it, not because he cannot. Face it, you cannot win this argument.

[MajGenl.Meade]

The pastor is acting out of line with God's word and should be jailed

Many people, pastors included, act "out of line with god's word"; I hardly think jail is a proper pusindment for that, lest we be jailed for having other gods before him,not keeping the sabbath holy, or adultery. God can defend his word on his own.

Lack of clarity on my part In defying government orders (at least here in SA) by holding a gathering larger than x number of persons, there should be criminal sanctions. That the pastor is out of line with God is not the reason for jailing him; it's a further comment upon his defiance of the God he claims to honor by disobeying lawful acts of authority.

Luther wrote: "It is even more shameful for a person to pay no heed to his own body and to fail to protect
it against the plague the best he is able, and then to infect and poison others who might have remained alive if he had taken care of his body as he should have. He is thus responsible before God for his neighbor’s death and is a murderer many times over. Indeed, such people behave as though a house were burning in the city and nobody were trying to put the fire out. Instead they give leeway to the flames so that the whole city is consumed, saying that if God so willed, he could save the city without water to quench the fire" I believe Luther correctly interprets truth there.

[MajGenl.Meade]

God can defend his word on his own.

Bet he cannot!

Not only will he lose the argument, Gob will also be unable to pay the bet!

[Gob]

Show me how God can defend his own word? He's not been heard from for 2000 years!

[Sue U]

U.S. Congressman Clay Higgins, a Republican from Louisiana, sent a letter to the governor last week saying he believes the limit on the size of church gatherings is unconstitutional.

“I agree that all our constituents and religious leaders should follow the recommendation of the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention (CDC),” Higgins wrote. “However, the decision to gather should be the choice of the individual or institution and not a mandate by any government entity. The state has no authority to enforce this proclamation nor any ban on worship.”

U.S. Congressman Clay Higgins is A Idiot and his declaration that "the state has no authority to enforce" the limitation in size of public gatherings has no legal basis, but is merely political pandering to his moronic "base."

In the first instance, it is more than obvious that the government has not issued any kind of "ban on worship," it has issued a ban on gatherings of more than 50 without regard to their purpose. Moreover, no religion that I have ever heard of requires worship in groups of more than 50 (although that may be a number too low for Pastor Pandemic up there to maintain a sufficient revenue stream).

Further, the Supreme Court has already addressed the fundamental constitutional question here, with Justice Scalia (no doubt Higgins's SCOTUS god) writing the opinion in Employment Division v. Smith, holding that a law of general application is constitutional even if it places a restriction on religious exercise.

But you go on, Dopey Clay Higgins. I'm sure somewhere in the 45 words of the First Amendment it says exactly what you imagine it says (it does not say that at all).

[Sue U]

Show me how God can defend his own word? He's not been heard from for 2000 years!

1400 years and that's only if you stop at Muhammad.

[TPFKA@W]

Show me how God can defend his own word? He's not been heard from for 2000 years!

Well, possibly not at all if you account for the possibility that the "words in red" might not be actual direct quotes and that the words, and the insistence that YOU MUST HAVE FAITH IN THEM OR YOUR SOUL IS DOOMED, might just be shit men made up to control other people. The ancient equivalent of "fake news". Not insisting that it is so but it is quite possible and believable.

[Big RR]

Show me how God can defend his own word? He's not been heard from for 2000 years!

If that's true it was/is his choice; you can't prove otherwise.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Show me how God can defend his own word? He's not been heard from for 2000 years!

All you have to do is die. Then you'll know.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well, possibly not at all if you account for the possibility that the "words in red" might not be actual direct quotes and that the words, and the insistence that YOU MUST HAVE FAITH IN THEM OR YOUR SOUL IS DOOMED, might just be shit men made up to control other people. The ancient equivalent of "fake news". Not insisting that it is so but it is quite possible and believable.

I'm interested in the "control other people" argument. You're quite right that there were no words in red in the original gospels (and Acts). In fact, Koine Greek had no punctuation, was written using capital letters and had no spaces between words. The first red letter Bible was an idea in 1899 that saw publication in 1901. Most modern translations don't have any words in red. However, many have quotation marks which indicate the same thing. These do not appear commonly until after 1611.

So were "the words" made up to control other people? It seems a threadbare argument. Better to say that "the words" at various times in history have been interpreted and just plain used by humans to regulate the lives of other humans, particularly in the Roman and Byzantine churches. But then so have many writings, both religious and secular.

Given that at least three gospels are credited to around 65 AD, give or take, is it the contention that these were written to control people at that time and, if so, who was doing the controlling, to what end, and who was being controlled? In what way is this "quite possible and believable"?

[Econoline]

Evangelicals Are Confident God Will Stop COVID-19 Just Like He Stopped Gun Violence