God vs. Darwin

All things philosophical, related to belief and / or religions of any and all sorts.
Personal philosophy welcomed.
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Apparently the on-fire for Jesus reverend was victim of a misunderstanding. He was self-immolating.
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Scooter
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Re: God vs. Darwin

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Marriage equality is responsible for coronavirus according to Christian pastor

In a Tuesday night prayer meeting, Tennessee Christian conservative pastor Perry Stone blamed the spread of coronavirus on marriage equality, abortion access, and the Democratic Party.

Stone told those in attendance that the pandemic is part of a “reckoning.”

“There’s a reckoning because the courts of the land passed a law to take an infant’s life, that it was okay, and for marriage, that we have known it, to be changed into something we’ve never known,” Stone said.

“Both of their laws – biblically in Leviticus and Deuteronomy – are what God calls an abomination[….] There will be a time when the Lord says, ‘Enough is enough.'”

Stone’s beliefs are outlandish for a number of obvious reasons, but it’s worth noting that same-sex marriage is not even legal in China, Italy, or Iran — the three countries that have been hit hardest by coronavirus.

Stone also said he believed it was no coincidence that some of the areas in the United States hit hardest by the virus are the California districts of Democratic Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D) and Rep. Adam Schiff (D), as well as the state of New York, the home state of Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D).

He continued, “We know coronavirus will go to West Virginia sooner or later… but isn’t it strange that the state that voted Trump in by 68%, the biggest state that voted in him, has no virus.”

Imitating the nasal voice he thinks his critics sound like, he said, “You say, ‘Preacher, you’re getting way out there, you’re getting weird.'”

“No,” he responded to this imaginary critic. “I’m prophetic and prophetic people are strange.”

Shortly after Stone made this claim, West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice (R) announced the first confirmed case of coronavirus in West Virginia. It is generally believed that the only reason it has taken this long for West Virginia to report a case is due to lack of testing.

As of Monday, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) told CNN, there had only been 84 tests conducted in the state, and he has asked the Trump administration to increase West Virginia’s access to testing.

“I have over 720,000 elderly,” he said. “I’ve got over 220,000 that are critically ill under 60 years of age.”

“If you put all this together, of the 1,800,000 people [who live in West Virginia], I have over a million that could be absolutely, totally devastated by this virus if it hits.”
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Big RR
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by Big RR »

Jesus however, was not "providing an example"
You honestly think he was not? How many times did he say the equivalent of "do ye likewise"? His ministry lasted a lot longer than his last week (or even from Easter to Pentecost), and he provided many examples and teachings on how people are supposed to act, living that way himself. Recall how he told Nicodemus to give up all and follow me for the path to salvation. Recall how he practiced nonviolence (even at his final arrest when he told the disciples to "put away your swords" and nonviolently submitted to arrest). Recall at the sermon on the mount when he showed people how to pray. The list can go on and on. He clearly did provide an example during his ministry.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: God vs. Darwin

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Boy, Big RR - I didn't expect to have to spell it out. He was not incarnated to "be a good example". He was one, of course. All that you say is correct. The purpose of the incarnation was to bring salvation to humankind. That is not achieved by humans doing good or being a good example. Following all of his commands should be the consequence of salvation.

What is particularly sickening about these pastors who hold mass meetings in defiance of the law and humanity, and those who live large on fleecing their flocks, and blame homosexuals, Democrats, Republicans, blacks, whoever they hate for all that is wrong is exactly that. They are not only not following Jesus but they are denigrating his every act and word while sheltering behind a false God that they worship.

BTW I just noticed that 'pandemic' is panic with a Dem in the middle of it. How can Trump have missed that? :lol:
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Gob
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by Gob »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:11 pm
The purpose of the incarnation was to bring salvation to humankind.
There you have the reason why I cannot take religion seriously.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: God vs. Darwin

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He was not incarnated to "be a good example". He was one, of course. All that you say is correct. The purpose of the incarnation was to bring salvation to humankind. That is not achieved by humans doing good or being a good example. Following all of his commands should be the consequence of salvation.
Well that's certainly the opinion of many; but my point is that he had a 3 year ministry and his teachings covered much more than his resurrection/being the sacrifice for redemption. Whether incarnation took place "to be a good example" is pretty immaterial, the world would be a better place if people followed that example. Will it lead to salvation? I imagine you will say no, but I am content to leave that to the grace of god.

I agree with you on the idiot pastors, and commend you on "pandemic". there's a job for you with the cheetoh in chief.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: God vs. Darwin

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Or 1 year if we set "John" aside. :lol: Of course, non-believers would believe that the purpose of the incarnation is not material, or even evidence against it (viz. Gob).

One doesn't need to be a weatherman to know the world would be a better place if people followed the commands of Jesus. Except that like bad pastors, some alleged Christians like to pick and choose which commands were the serious ones and which are not material. :nana
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

One doesn't need to be a weatherman to know the world would be a better place if people followed the commands of Jesus.
And from this atheist: Amen to that.

rubato
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by rubato »

History, and Religious stupidity, really does repeat itself. During the pneumonic plague people crowded together in churches which guaranteed much more loss of life. Proving that science is always better than religion.


yrs,
rubato

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: God vs. Darwin

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History, and Religious stupidity, really does repeat itself. During the pneumonic plague people crowded together in churches which guaranteed much more loss of life. Proving that science is always better than religion.
On September 28, 1918, a Liberty Loan parade in Philadelphia prompts a huge outbreak of Spanish flu in the city.
... proving that science is better than bonds.

Of course, neither proves either and our resident expert on history probably refers to the Black Death which some believe had its origins in the pneumonic form of plague. We may note that science was as stupid as priests in the 1300s

Pastors today have no excuse whatsoever
"I don't have dreams. Either in dreams or life."
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Big RR
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by Big RR »

130os? Hell, the physicians (I don't think there were any barber surgeons then) didn't stop bloodletting until the late 1800s. Many of these pateints might have been far better off with just religious prayer service than doing what "science" prescribed.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Interestingly (or not) "isolation" was practiced by very non-scientific groups all over the world at various times. Recognizing that some afflictions or diseases were or might be contagious, there was a tendency in some religious groups to separate the affected from the non-affected. They were doing it before scientists and doctors were invented.

Isolation and shunning were rather common reactions - closed gates and bugger off being the medical terms. Gregory and his enmity toward black cats is sometimes blamed for the growth in rat population (although since both carry fleas....). Then again, humans carried fleas and certainly interacted with each other more often than humans did with rats (or cats).

Of course, flocking together during a plague would be a bit silly - but did it happen? Where is the alleged event supposed to have occurred? Nothing is surprising about the Roman church.
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Gob
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by Gob »

Isolation, Spanish style.
Soldiers drafted in to help Spain tackle the coronavirus pandemic by disinfecting and running residential homes have found a number of elderly people abandoned and dead in their beds, according to the country’s defence minister.

News of the grim discoveries came as Spain experienced a further rise in the number of coronavirus deaths and cases, and as health authorities set about distributing almost 650,000 rapid testing kits.

On Monday, the country’s defence minister, Margarita Robles, said that members of the specialist Military Emergencies Unit had found the corpses as they carried out their duties.

“During some of its visits, the army has seen some totally abandoned elderly people – even some who were dead in their beds,” Robles told the Ana Rosa TV programme.

Robles said such inhumane treatment would not be tolerated and that anyone ignoring their responsibilities would be prosecuted.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Darren
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by Darren »

rubato wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:25 am
History, and Religious stupidity, really does repeat itself. During the pneumonic plague people crowded together in churches which guaranteed much more loss of life. Proving that science is always better than religion.


yrs,
rubato
I had the good fortune, in retrospect, to get an introduction to a Japanese religious cult. I declined to exit at that station and continued on my journey still in possession of the immaculate pendant.

Such things incite my curiosity.

Subsequent searches found another cult with identical beliefs including a similar pendent. Later I found commonality in Reiki and traced commonality back to the Japanese Navy which produced a medical manual based on Buddhist practice prior to WWII. I'm still occasionally working on that line of inquiry.

The over all theme is a belief in the unseen. My interest in religion dates back to high school years. Along the way I found a genealogy of Christianity which should make you wonder who got it right with all of the interpretations.

In a sense science has uncovered the unseen at least as far as energy and matter. With all of that we're still stuck with the current preternatural and supernatural.

Sometimes the unseen is real. It's only a matter of time and effort before it becomes seen in an explainable and acceptable sense.
You know you're in great company when you, China, Iran and Russia all want Trump out of office.

rubato
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by rubato »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:00 am
History, and Religious stupidity, really does repeat itself. During the pneumonic plague people crowded together in churches which guaranteed much more loss of life. Proving that science is always better than religion.
On September 28, 1918, a Liberty Loan parade in Philadelphia prompts a huge outbreak of Spanish flu in the city.
... proving that science is better than bonds.
Only apt if the people were at the parade to protect them from flu
Of course, neither proves either and our resident expert on history probably refers to the Black Death which some believe had its origins in the pneumonic form of plague. We may note that science was as stupid as priests in the 1300s
Science got better while priests and ministers have learned nothing.
Pastors today have no excuse whatsoever
Now that is true.

yrs,
rubato

rubato
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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by rubato »

Big RR wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:56 pm
130os? Hell, the physicians (I don't think there were any barber surgeons then) didn't stop bloodletting until the late 1800s. Many of these pateints might have been far better off with just religious prayer service than doing what "science" prescribed.

Blood letting was a cultural practice grounded in superstition dating back to Roman times. No relation to science.

yrs,
rubato

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Re: God vs. Darwin

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If you are going to quote me, rubato, don't insert your own comments within what you allege are my remarks.

Instead, try answering a direct question under your own rubatoric.
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Scooter
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Re: God vs. Darwin

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Their Money or Your Life (The Price of Pro-Life, Christian Capitalism)

MARCH 24, 2020 / JOHN PAVLOVITZ

Love is powerful.

It will make human beings do almost anything.

We’re seeing that right now.

Some people adore capitalism so much, they’re willing to sell their souls to support it.

They’re willing to spend other people lives in service of it.

In the middle of a brutal sprawling pandemic, on a day when 100 Americans died and our confirmed cases topped 43,000, Republican lieutenant governor of Texas, Dan Patrick, went on Fox News and said that older Americans would and should be willing to die in order to preserve the economy; that the elderly are the acceptable collateral damage of boosting the Stock Market and getting businesses rolling. He essentially served up grandparents and great aunts and Nanas and neighbors as seed money for Trump’s reelection campaign and as a temporary recession stay.

Not coincidentally, this unthinkably macabre theory came on the same day that Donald Trump began suggesting he will send people back to work next week—even as doctors and scientists have been begging people to take self-isolation guidelines seriously because the virus is approaching uncontainable levels; even as school systems are announcing shutdowns until at least May; even while test kits are still unavailable to hundreds of thousands, even as people are stockpiling toilet paper and rice and guns; even as our health care workers are pushed to the brink of collapse.

It also came on the same day when Republicans are trying to ram a slush-fund trojan hose disguised as economic crisis aid through the Senate; one that pads the already heavily buffered nest eggs of corporations and does little more for day laborers and the working poor, than give them the cheap buss of a one-time token gift.

This is the repugnant sham of pro-life Christianity revealed in all its grotesque ugliness.

This is what the Religious Right really thinks about human life: if the price is right, it is all expendable.

This is the economy of soul capitalism: their money is worth your life.

Other’s supply can meet their greedy demand.

For all their tearful, showy displays of phony religion, all their impassioned pleas about embryos in the womb being sacred—they will let sentient human beings with grandchildren and spouses and decades of wisdom, die on the altar of their 401Ks.

They’re actually lobbying to send millions of people back into the swirling chaos of an infectious disease even before the peak of its spread—because their identity and the President’s base is so beholden to a group of numbers and a ledger ending up in the black, that it sees no value in sick, elderly, and vulnerable human beings, for whom relaunching business as usual would be a certain death sentence.

Jesus said you cannot serve both God and money.

I never see these pro-life Christian Republicans wearing that verse on their chests or plastering it on their bumpers or brazenly broadcasting on social media, because then they’d be forced to face their fraudulence, they’d be forced to admit their hypocrisy—and they’d have to confess that the teachings of Jesus and the sanctity of life aren’t all that critical when there’s a buck to be made or a bailout to be brokered.

Call me strange, but I don’t think the sick or the elderly are expendable just so Republicans can hold the presidency or so some already wealthy people can become even wealthier.

I don’t see my mother or your grandfather or your next-door neighbor or your co-worker’s spouse as the acceptable collateral damage of temporarily boosting the Dow or nudging Donald Trump’s poll numbers or providing a one-day national emotional placebo that allows a virus to keep killing. I don’t believe older people’s lives are chips for someone else to cash in.

Maybe I’m not a proper, card-carrying Evangelical “pro-life” Christian—just a decent human being who takes the teachings of Jesus seriously; one who values elderly and sick and vulnerable people who are living here right now, who deserve to be here as long as anyone else.

I don’t give a damn about the economy if it costs us humanity.

I’ll be okay with that balance in my ledger.

I can look myself in the mirror.

I can sleep at night.
White privilege doesn't mean your life isn't hard. It means your skin colour isn't making it harder.

What goes on in a woman's uterus is none of your fucking business.

Equal rights for others does not mean less rights for you. It's not pie.

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Re: God vs. Darwin

Post by Big RR »

rubato wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:45 am
Big RR wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:56 pm
130os? Hell, the physicians (I don't think there were any barber surgeons then) didn't stop bloodletting until the late 1800s. Many of these pateints might have been far better off with just religious prayer service than doing what "science" prescribed.

Blood letting was a cultural practice grounded in superstition dating back to Roman times. No relation to science.

yrs,
rubato
If I'm not mistaken, it goes back to the early Egyptian times as well. Byt physicians and surgeons were taught by their senior physcians, and later by medical schools to do this; and it carried well forward into the 19th century. We may argue whether the practice of medicine is rooted in science, but at the very least "science" did very little to discourage this, and I have seen "scientific" papers defending/promoting this practice from the late 18th century. Respected doctors and surgeons made this a regular part of their practices. It was not just a folk superstition.

Indeed, treatment with herbs and other sustances (which form the basis of some modern phamaceuticals) is more based in folk superstion than bloodletting.

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Re: God vs. Darwin

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There are still a handful of conditions for which bloodletting is prescribed by modern physicians- and leeches are routinely used in modern plastic surgical practice. Modern research indicates that some benefit was actually realized from historic bloodletting, in reducing the iron content in blood thus starving the staphylococcus bacteria that feed on iron - in an age before antibiotics.

Since experiencing early menopause I have become religious in blood donation in order to avoid the negative health implications of elevated iron levels (I cook in cast iron) - bloodletting that benefits a recipient as well!
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